New tractors versus classics

thought about a quick attach alright. way we worked around the short arms is to give a bit of space to put on the pto and hoses before fully backing into the spinner. just have to fight to get into the toplink. how much are they anyways?

I bought the OCE quick attach for €1k a few years back. I also had to modify the bottom lugs on some implements to match the width of the quick attack. On newer implements I had to do no modifications. I would have to advise on a hydraulic top link so that could be another €400 for a heavy duty top link.

A shortcoming on them would be the maximum weight they are designed to lift.
 
Last edited:
I bought the OCE which attach for €1k a few years back. I also had to modify the bottom lugs on some implements to match the width of the quick attack. On newer implements I had to do no modifications. I would have to advise on a hydraulic top link so that could be another €400 for a heavy duty top link.

A shortcoming on them would be the maximum weight they are designed to lift.

I don't understand why new tractors and machinery don't come with a standard quick hitch,no one buys a digger nowadays without a quick hitch with the exception of the biggest machines but there is no need to change the bucket on them
 
I don't understand why new tractors and machinery don't come with a standard quick hitch,no one buys a digger nowadays without a quick hitch with the exception of the biggest machines but there is no need to change the bucket on them
What kind of quick hitch do you mean? Do you mean hydraulic pins on the loader?
 
I don't understand why new tractors and machinery don't come with a standard quick hitch,no one buys a digger nowadays without a quick hitch with the exception of the biggest machines but there is no need to change the bucket on them

That's a point I made with someone that has a digger. I said would you buy a digger without a quick attach. I can't ever imagine myself without one on the back of the tractor once I was used to it.
 
I bought the OCE quick attach for €1k a few years back. I also had to modify the bottom lugs on some implements to match the width of the quick attack. On newer implements I had to do no modifications. I would have to advise on a hydraulic top link so that could be another €400 for a heavy duty top link.

A shortcoming on them would be the maximum weight they are designed to lift.
I thought hard about using a three point quick hitch a few years ago when.oce came out with it.as insayntje limitation is the load .
It's fine for a grassland farmers implements but for tillage/contractors work it's not strong enough and the increase in distance from the rear of the tractor is a problem for heavy kit too
A good theory and ideal for a decent tractor with reasonable implements
 
The one chance contractors have to make a few extra Euro and you think they should pass it on to their customers instead.

I see the Journal are printing the same stuff too on the dairy page and advising lads to do their own work.

Of course nothing to be said about silage being the single largest expense on most farms and therefore pays to have it done correctly :rolleyes2:
 
On a related point, to this thread, when does old become too old?

If we all kept old yokes we'd be still using grey Fergies or Ford 3600's..:blushing:
Too old is when it becomes too unreliable for the business or nobody wants to operate it anymore. Other than that I can’t think of any other reason?
 
Too old is when it becomes too unreliable for the business or nobody wants to operate it anymore. Other than that I can’t think of any other reason?
Unhealthy is another important one
Its not good if your back is getting banjaxed from a bad seat mounted directly to the backend, also not good if you are coughing up dust and shite after a day on one of these, or your hearing is getting damaged.
 
Unhealthy is another important one
Its not good if your back is getting banjaxed from a bad seat mounted directly to the backend, also not good if you are coughing up dust and shite after a day on one of these, or your hearing is getting damaged.
Yep, absolutely.
 
On a related point, to this thread, when does old become too old?

If we all kept old yokes we'd be still using grey Fergies or Ford 3600's..:blushing:

I have a 135, 168 and a NH TL90A and they got used the most all winter in that order as well. The 135 had it's engine reconditioned twice and is used the most. At christmas when I was of on holidays she was going every single day, I was cutting dead trees in a wood and nothing else was small enough to fit in between the existing trees. Next out the most all winter was the 168 putting in bales of silage, I used her just to give her something to do and because the bales were light enough to lift and to keep the hours down on the NH. The only thing the NH did all winter was operate a log splitter for a few hours. Now the weather has improved I use the NH for the heavy work on the dump trailer. There is people out there running about on big tractors doing jobs a 135 would do. The 135 is 55 years old and many's a time was tow started and I would consider her more reliable than a brand new one out of the box because you can tow start her.
New tractors are only dear because people keep adding on extras and in five years time when you buy another new tractor the extras you bought the last time are standard with the price added on and there is a new list of extras to choose from. Manufacturers are only giving customers what they want, but if you want these things the unfortunate thing is you have to pay for them.
As seen in another thread there was a basic New Holland advertised for sale with just an open frame for a cab. The manufactures still make these tractors, and could offer them for sale here with a cab but don't because there is no market. New tractors aren't dear, new tractors are priced according to all the extra stuff added on to them.
 
If the contractor were to pass on the saving, would it even make a significant difference to the customer?

The last time a contractor made bales here in 2013, it was 5 euros a bale. I think its still 5 euros a bale now.

Farm contractors association published stuff last year to justify price rises. They claimed that it took 2 litres of diesel per bale to mow, rake, bale and wrap on average. With prices down over 30c per litre, that's 60c per bale extra in their pocket.

I put that post up there in jest and its amazing to see the reaction to it. Our own contractor is quite competitive with price and I can't see him reducing his prices nor do I expect him to. But if you think back only a few months ago to the articles about the fuel carbon tax which would be about 6c per litre, the farm contractors association were very fast to tell us that many of their members were going to pass it on to their customers. They have been very quiet lately. We don't see any articles about the 30c per litre drop in fuel prices.

We got notification from car insurance companies and health insurance that we would be getting refunds due to lower claims as a result of coronavirus.
 
I have a 135, 168 and a NH TL90A and they got used the most all winter in that order as well. The 135 had it's engine reconditioned twice and is used the most. At christmas when I was of on holidays she was going every single day, I was cutting dead trees in a wood and nothing else was small enough to fit in between the existing trees. Next out the most all winter was the 168 putting in bales of silage, I used her just to give her something to do and because the bales were light enough to lift and to keep the hours down on the NH. The only thing the NH did all winter was operate a log splitter for a few hours. Now the weather has improved I use the NH for the heavy work on the dump trailer. There is people out there running about on big tractors doing jobs a 135 would do. The 135 is 55 years old and many's a time was tow started and I would consider her more reliable than a brand new one out of the box because you can tow start her.
New tractors are only dear because people keep adding on extras and in five years time when you buy another new tractor the extras you bought the last time are standard with the price added on and there is a new list of extras to choose from. Manufacturers are only giving customers what they want, but if you want these things the unfortunate thing is you have to pay for them.
As seen in another thread there was a basic New Holland advertised for sale with just an open frame for a cab. The manufactures still make these tractors, and could offer them for sale here with a cab but don't because there is no market. New tractors aren't dear, new tractors are priced according to all the extra stuff added on to them.
I dont think you can lay the blame for the crazy price of new tractors nowadays purely on extra's tbh
What are these extras anyway?
Take someone with a 20 year old TS115 SLE Turbo for example,. with Electric lift, Air Con etc
If he/she wants a new 6 pot 120hp NH with same gearbox and spec, are we talking €90k including vat?
 
I dont think you can lay the blame for the crazy price of new tractors nowadays purely on extra's tbh
What are these extras anyway?
Take someone with a 20 year old TS115 SLE Turbo for example,. with Electric lift, Air Con etc
If he/she wants a new 6 pot 120hp NH with same gearbox and spec, are we talking €90k including vat?
Emissions adds more than 10k, and we are into Teir 5 now so that’ll add another few thousand. A Massey 7718 is more expensive than a 7720 today. A 7718 is tier 5. EU mother regulations added a lot of money to ur farmers 110/120 hp tractor. So u cud easily ave 15k added to ur tractor without u having a choice. Then there’s tyres who puts on 16.9 x 34 anymore has to be a couple of grand there. Tractors are far from cheap but as said if u can mind a yoke and don’t be afraid to wash it and keep her in at nite. She will hold her value. Well minded clean secondhand tractors keep going up in price as well.
 
Farm contractors association published stuff last year to justify price rises. They claimed that it took 2 litres of diesel per bale to mow, rake, bale and wrap on average. With prices down over 30c per litre, that's 60c per bale extra in their pocket.

I put that post up there in jest and its amazing to see the reaction to it. Our own contractor is quite competitive with price and I can't see him reducing his prices nor do I expect him to. But if you think back only a few months ago to the articles about the fuel carbon tax which would be about 6c per litre, the farm contractors association were very fast to tell us that many of their members were going to pass it on to their customers. They have been very quiet lately. We don't see any articles about the 30c per litre drop in fuel prices.

We got notification from car insurance companies and health insurance that we would be getting refunds due to lower claims as a result of coronavirus.
Well if you are comparing insurance companies to farm contractors then you are completely out of touch. Farm contractors dont have a reduced workload. Whether you want to hear it or not, The contractors costs are continually going up. The diesel going down in price is just a temporary relief on that.
You say your contractor is competitive but you want him to charge less. That translates to him not making any money at all. Some guys only think what the baler/mower/rake is making per hour while working. They never think about the other 330/340 days that it must still be paid for
 
Well if you are comparing insurance companies to farm contractors then you are completely out of touch. Farm contractors dont have a reduced workload. Whether you want to hear it or not, The contractors costs are continually going up. The diesel going down in price is just a temporary relief on that.
You say your contractor is competitive but you want him to charge less. That translates to him not making any money at all. Some guys only think what the baler/mower/rake is making per hour while working. They never think about the other 330/340 days that it must still be paid for

You are totally misunderstanding me and misquoting me to try to discredit me. I didn't do that to you.
I never said that insurance companies have reducedworkload - infact, they have never been as busy. I said that they have lower costs due to lower claims. They are giving money back to customers as a result.

I said that farm contractors have lower costs due to lower diesel prices. I pointed out that the farm contractors association, only a few months ago, had pages upon pages of articles in newspapers declaring how an increase in carbon tax and and a subsequent increase in fuel costs will have to be passed on to the customer. I pointed out that now that we have seen a drop of over 30c per litre in fuel costs, the farm contractors association are being very quiet.

I never once said that I want my contractor to charge less. I said that he is very competitive and I do not expect him to lower his prices due to the drop in fuel prices.

Read what I wrote before you cut my throat!
 
You are totally misunderstanding me and misquoting me to try to discredit me. I didn't do that to you.
I never said that insurance companies have reducedworkload - infact, they have never been as busy. I said that they have lower costs due to lower claims. They are giving money back to customers as a result.

I said that farm contractors have lower costs due to lower diesel prices. I pointed out that the farm contractors association, only a few months ago, had pages upon pages of articles in newspapers declaring how an increase in carbon tax and and a subsequent increase in fuel costs will have to be passed on to the customer. I pointed out that now that we have seen a drop of over 30c per litre in fuel costs, the farm contractors association are being very quiet.

I never once said that I want my contractor to charge less. I said that he is very competitive and I do not expect him to lower his prices due to the drop in fuel prices.

Read what I wrote before you cut my throat!

While I'm not an fci member I can understand why they wanted to increase prices there is a tiny margin in it to begin with and at the way fuel prices were the extra carbon tax was going to push things over the edge a bit.
If the fuel stays the way it is and its a big grass year it should put contractors in a good position in 2021 a few debts cleared money there to spend on either upgrading or fixing up machinery that otherwise wouldn't have been done.
Contractors don't fluctuate there prices when milk price is good
 
You are totally misunderstanding me and misquoting me to try to discredit me. I didn't do that to you.
I never said that insurance companies have reducedworkload - infact, they have never been as busy. I said that they have lower costs due to lower claims. They are giving money back to customers as a result.

I said that farm contractors have lower costs due to lower diesel prices. I pointed out that the farm contractors association, only a few months ago, had pages upon pages of articles in newspapers declaring how an increase in carbon tax and and a subsequent increase in fuel costs will have to be passed on to the customer. I pointed out that now that we have seen a drop of over 30c per litre in fuel costs, the farm contractors association are being very quiet.

I never once said that I want my contractor to charge less. I said that he is very competitive and I do not expect him to lower his prices due to the drop in fuel prices.

Read what I wrote before you cut my throat!
My apologies if my post reads as you think.
I am merely defending the fact that fuel is just 1 part of contractors costs, which are on a continuing upward spiral.
Your posts do read to me that contractors should be reducing charges. I am saying to you and every other farmer, that i hope not to increase baling charges this year depending on fuel costs staying low. I did not intend it to be anything personal to you ok
 
Contractors don't fluctuate there prices when milk price is good

Not trying to be smart, but why would they?

They operate like any other business. They base their price on their costs, not on other's profits.

I am merely pointing out that the farm contractors association only seem to want to direct their members to adjust their prices in one direction. Farmers have debts too that could be cleared if their costs were a bit lower for once and that would put them into a good position for 2021 too. Farmers and contractors - one can't exist without the other!
 
I see the Journal are printing the same stuff too on the dairy page and advising lads to do their own work.

Of course nothing to be said about silage being the single largest expense on most farms and therefore pays to have it done correctly :rolleyes2:
If
I see the Journal are printing the same stuff too on the dairy page and advising lads to do their own work.

Of course nothing to be said about silage being the single largest expense on most farms and therefore pays to have it done correctly :rolleyes2:
There will be more idiots leave their silage till July to cut so they can get value out of the contractor. They might as well make a pit of straw for all the feeding value in it.
 
I think this thread shows how little tractors have really moved on in 20 years.
20 years ago a 20yr old tractor was uncomphortable and you would want to upgrade.
Now a 20 yr old tractor is desirable and still a good place to spend days in.

Yet the price of a modern one is huge vs a new one 20 yrs ago. Apart from more buttons to controll what a lever controlled what has changed in them?

And I've been told that electric cables and buttons are cheaper to make than levers!
I was trying to buy a new tractor over the last few weeks, a neighbour wanted to buy my 12yr old MF6490 and I have to upgrade my plough, 14 yrs old.
The reasons I was looking at changing were, I wanted very new tech wheels and tyres (IF/VF 650/65/42's & %40/65/30's), I wanted auto guidance, I wanted a new lift (trusting a very heavy implement on a well used 12 yr old lift gets more and more an act of faith). I could have retrofitted all the above to the 12 yr old tractor and repaired to like new, but it would have cost close to €30,000.00+V and I would still have a 12 yr old tractor and still would be hoping nothing fails with the very heavy equipment on the lift.
I didn't end up buying new as the gap between new and the 12 yr old is too big for me to bridge even though I almost bought a NH, so ended up with 1 yr old.
For me what new tractors offer over 20 yr olds is as follows.
Properly integrated tech.
A choice of good 200hp tractors that are a manageable size, the only 20 yr old tractor anything like that was a JD7810 and it really wasn't supposed to be 200hp.
10 ton lift capacity and the reassurance that it is new.
Unfortunately the price is getting way beyond agriculture's pocket, as I said to the salesmen the problem is the price of our commodities, all farm produce would have made as much or more at some time in each of the last 5 decades. Our buying power is shrinking and we give that everyone else expects a living wage.
Not having a go at your thoughts @AYF for a stockman tractor very little has improved and a lot has disimproved, just my thoughts from a tillageman's point of view.
 
Not trying to be smart, but why would they?

They operate like any other business. They base their price on their costs, not on other's profits.

I am merely pointing out that the farm contractors association only seem to want to direct their members to adjust their prices in one direction. Farmers have debts too that could be cleared if their costs were a bit lower for once and that would put them into a good position for 2021 too. Farmers and contractors - one can't exist without the other!
There lies the answer a farmer should be worried about his own costs not a contractors profit margin.
If a contractor had the same concerns as you have and I'm not pointing a finger at you I'm just reiterating what you said.
Then the contractor would be charging more in years of good milk prices.
It's not the way it works.
years my customers do well from farming others they don't and I'm delighted for them the years they do well
The same can be said for myself.
 
I was trying to buy a new tractor over the last few weeks, a neighbour wanted to buy my 12yr old MF6490 and I have to upgrade my plough, 14 yrs old.
The reasons I was looking at changing were, I wanted very new tech wheels and tyres (IF/VF 650/65/42's & %40/65/30's), I wanted auto guidance, I wanted a new lift (trusting a very heavy implement on a well used 12 yr old lift gets more and more an act of faith). I could have retrofitted all the above to the 12 yr old tractor and repaired to like new, but it would have cost close to €30,000.00+V and I would still have a 12 yr old tractor and still would be hoping nothing fails with the very heavy equipment on the lift.
I didn't end up buying new as the gap between new and the 12 yr old is too big for me to bridge even though I almost bought a NH, so ended up with 1 yr old.
For me what new tractors offer over 20 yr olds is as follows.
Properly integrated tech.
A choice of good 200hp tractors that are a manageable size, the only 20 yr old tractor anything like that was a JD7810 and it really wasn't supposed to be 200hp.
10 ton lift capacity and the reassurance that it is new.
Unfortunately the price is getting way beyond agriculture's pocket, as I said to the salesmen the problem is the price of our commodities, all farm produce would have made as much or more at some time in each of the last 5 decades. Our buying power is shrinking and we give that everyone else expects a living wage.
Not having a go at your thoughts @AYF for a stockman tractor very little has improved and a lot has disimproved, just my thoughts from a tillageman's point of view.
I see what ur saying.
If jumping up in spec I suppose the price is going to fly up.
Like for like if you will, not much has changed in the core.
What I'm saying is that were told that a wire and solenoid is cheaper than a lever and cable. And standardising componenta accross ranges and indeed brands (look at all the tractors that are just different colours)
Yet that cost hasn't been past to us the buyer, only the shareholders.

Same story all sides of agriculture I suppose.
Buy in retail sell out wholesale and pay for transport both sides is just as true when buying new tractors.
 
The problem with the new stuff is ,when an error code comes on the dash, you go from doing your days work happily, to trying to find out how bad the problem is. And then all the unreliable sensors fitted to the these tractors that you have to replace when they go. Too many niggly electrical things on the newer tractors will have alot of lads running away from them
 
Back
Top