Beef plan

I'd be of a similar opinion to yourself Ozzy. Read this earlier:
https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/beef-plan-the-progress-made-to-date-on-its-13-points/

So basically nothing achieved. Both weighing and written quotes are optional which means the vast majority won't take them up. Which furthermore means it will cost the factory especially when you have to pay the factory for it!!

Both agreements to me are little to nothing and I can't honestly believe that those around the table were naive enough to agree to them as published to date.
 
Not to sound condescending but apologies in advance anyway.
My main observations about the protests were as follows:
-Not many actual beef finishers took part in process.
- Most of those taking part had much more to gain by implementing some sort of efficiency measures at home. Ie growing more grass, measuring it and managing it, as opposed to growing ragworth
- Protesting against cuts to stock which clearly are outside market requirements. Most men in dismay about stock prices consistently produce what they want not what the market wants. Its not a new phenomenon that factories don't want 420kg plus carcasses
- Unfortunately in any sector of agriculture dairy beef sheep or tillage, there's rarely a living to be made from a sub 40 acre holding. This is emphasized when such holdings aren't stocked properly either. Unless a very highly skilled and in demand professional there's no other way of earning 30 or 40000 per year from 10 hours work per week. If lads like to farm part time as a hobby more power to them. Probably no better way of relaxing. But it's hard to expect the above returns.
- I personally know of some excellent suckler operators, operators who never complain and have more to loose by price fluctuations than a lot who were protesting. For the other cohort who love to complain about the suckler cow being unviable should they not ask the following? Is it due to management? Eg Calving interval, genetics, stocking rate, grassland management
If it's been a long-standing loss making enterprise why stay at it?

Nobody ever slates the factories when beef is 4.00/kg. It's probably a volume based fixed low margin business. Beef is under pressure worldwide from a price point due to trade deals and consumer sentiment, eating habits etc.
I'm not suggesting a race to the bottom by any means but I think going forward there has to be an industry collaboration dairy and beef into making dairy beef a profitable venture. The higher stocking rates alone of calf to beef with all productive animals leaves huge potential profit gains to be made. Scale will obviously dictate whether an Enterprise is viable or not but doing the sums myself these animals can all leave a fair margin.

Lastly a huge responsibility must come onto the dairy farmers to produce a quality calf going forward. This will become a necessity i believe as welfare issues become more prominent. It may be no harm that the dairy man be put in a position that he must have quality stock in order to get rid of them at 2 and most likely 3 weeks old going forward. This hopefully has the potential for some symbiosis going forward
 
Mikeyboy said:
Not to sound condescending but apologies in advance anyway.
My main observations about the protests were as follows:
-Not many actual beef finishers took part in process.
- Most of those taking part had much more to gain by implementing some sort of efficiency measures at home. Ie growing more grass, measuring it and managing it, as opposed to growing ragworth
- Protesting against cuts to stock which clearly are outside market requirements. Most men in dismay about stock prices consistently produce what they want not what the market wants. Its not a new phenomenon that factories don't want 420kg plus carcasses
- Unfortunately in any sector of agriculture dairy beef sheep or tillage, there's rarely a living to be made from a sub 40 acre holding. This is emphasized when such holdings aren't stocked properly either. Unless a very highly skilled and in demand professional there's no other way of earning 30 or 40000 per year from 10 hours work per week. If lads like to farm part time as a hobby more power to them. Probably no better way of relaxing. But it's hard to expect the above returns.
- I personally know of some excellent suckler operators, operators who never complain and have more to loose by price fluctuations than a lot who were protesting. For the other cohort who love to complain about the suckler cow being unviable should they not ask the following? Is it due to management? Eg Calving interval, genetics, stocking rate, grassland management
If it's been a long-standing loss making enterprise why stay at it?

Nobody ever slates the factories when beef is 4.00/kg. It's probably a volume based fixed low margin business. Beef is under pressure worldwide from a price point due to trade deals and consumer sentiment, eating habits etc.
I'm not suggesting a race to the bottom by any means but I think going forward there has to be an industry collaboration dairy and beef into making dairy beef a profitable venture. The higher stocking rates alone of calf to beef with all productive animals leaves huge potential profit gains to be made. Scale will obviously dictate whether an Enterprise is viable or not but doing the sums myself these animals can all leave a fair margin.

Lastly a huge responsibility must come onto the dairy farmers to produce a quality calf going forward. This will become a necessity i believe as welfare issues become more prominent. It may be no harm that the dairy man be put in a position that he must have quality stock in order to get rid of them at 2 and most likely 3 weeks old going forward. This hopefully has the potential for some symbiosis going forward
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2 years ago 4euro was a bad price and we were told to tighten our belts and be more efficient. Now it's down to 3.50 and we are supposed to do the same. Are we not already in a race to the bottom? Beef hasn't gotten cheaper in the shops either, if anything it's too expensive. No way could you feed a family on beef except mince.
I'd say in 15 years we haven't had a Sunday roast, it's all pork chicken turkey. Don't even get lamb.
 
Mikeyboy said:
Not to sound condescending but apologies in advance anyway.
My main observations about the protests were as follows:
-Not many actual beef finishers took part in process.
- Most of those taking part had much more to gain by implementing some sort of efficiency measures at home. Ie growing more grass, measuring it and managing it, as opposed to growing ragworth
- Protesting against cuts to stock which clearly are outside market requirements. Most men in dismay about stock prices consistently produce what they want not what the market wants. Its not a new phenomenon that factories don't want 420kg plus carcasses
- Unfortunately in any sector of agriculture dairy beef sheep or tillage, there's rarely a living to be made from a sub 40 acre holding. This is emphasized when such holdings aren't stocked properly either. Unless a very highly skilled and in demand professional there's no other way of earning 30 or 40000 per year from 10 hours work per week. If lads like to farm part time as a hobby more power to them. Probably no better way of relaxing. But it's hard to expect the above returns.
- I personally know of some excellent suckler operators, operators who never complain and have more to loose by price fluctuations than a lot who were protesting. For the other cohort who love to complain about the suckler cow being unviable should they not ask the following? Is it due to management? Eg Calving interval, genetics, stocking rate, grassland management
If it's been a long-standing loss making enterprise why stay at it?

Nobody ever slates the factories when beef is 4.00/kg. It's probably a volume based fixed low margin business. Beef is under pressure worldwide from a price point due to trade deals and consumer sentiment, eating habits etc.
I'm not suggesting a race to the bottom by any means but I think going forward there has to be an industry collaboration dairy and beef into making dairy beef a profitable venture. The higher stocking rates alone of calf to beef with all productive animals leaves huge potential profit gains to be made. Scale will obviously dictate whether an Enterprise is viable or not but doing the sums myself these animals can all leave a fair margin.

Lastly a huge responsibility must come onto the dairy farmers to produce a quality calf going forward. This will become a necessity i believe as welfare issues become more prominent. It may be no harm that the dairy man be put in a position that he must have quality stock in order to get rid of them at 2 and most likely 3 weeks old going forward. This hopefully has the potential for some symbiosis going forward
Click to expand...
Some people are very good at doing sums and unfortunately, while alot of these sums add up very nicely on paper !, its very different in practicality...are you producing beef.. can you compete for renting ground with the dairysector. The balance is completely off in my view.
 
Is it not something that they got to sit down with the mii and have an open discussion if nothing else...at least going forward there might be some doubt there with them that the farmers will rebel against them.... if they had failed this time beef farming would be in worse trouble going forward
 
Arthur said:
Feck sake, dairy isn't so bad that you can't afford a bit of roast beef..:whistle:
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Get a chipper feed for 5 people you won't have much change from €50, home cooked food a lot better and a lot cheaper.

Have to agree with everything the above poster said, there's a lot of people it wouldn't matter what price they got they couldn't make a living out of it. 40 cows will never make 40k profit.
 
6600 said:
Get a chipper feed for 5 people you won't have much change from €50, home cooked food a lot better and a lot cheaper.

Have to agree with everything the above poster said, there's a lot of people it wouldn't matter what price they got they couldn't make a living out of it. 40 cows will never make 40k profit.
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Average suckler herd size in the country is 17 cows.
 
@Mikeyboy Im sure some of what you say is true, however I know some suckler farmers who are on top of their game and can't see how they can be expected to take the savage price cuts. The weights and ages and all the other rules went out the window with factories when the protests were on.

Lastly if milk dropped to the levels beef is at and someone told ya to go home and pull ragwort instead of worrying about the price I'm sure you'd be impressed.
 
Mf240 said:
@Mikeyboy Im sure some of what you say is true, however I know some suckler farmers who are on top of their game and can't see how they can be expected to take the savage price cuts. The weights and ages and all the other rules went out the window with factories when the protests were on.

Lastly if milk dropped to the levels beef is at and someone told ya to go home and pull ragwort instead of worrying about the price I'm sure you'd be impressed.
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It something that is often said, but Im sure as hell, lads that dropped in cattle during the protest were treated the same as normal with specs. I assume some managed to get 5c extra for the hassle. But in the factories I deal with, specs are specs and they dont change irrespective of how short they are on cattle
 
Blackwater boy said:
Average suckler herd size in the country is 17 cows.
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If they decide to do something different that's their decision and let them decide in their own time, they don't need some D4 economist to tell them to get out because they are damaging the environment when the truth is the complete opposite. We now have the EU system where the government feel they have the right to tell every person what they must do with their own property and it's only going to get worse. In Germany they are debating the introduction of a meat tax in the Bund, while some universities have banned the consumption of meat on their campuses.
 
Jaysus! The EU/Germans really are trying to implement a dictatorship.
I don't like the look of the EU anymore to be honest.
 
The factory is not the enemy this time. It s all the misleading carbon figures being bandied about. Sure whatever replaces beef to a point of proper nutrition will most certainly produce carbon..i dont understand why so many leaders aren't even questioning this point.. its so reckless and i can see a period where dairycalves will be homeless, shot and/or mistreated
 
ponderosa said:
The factory is not the enemy this time. It s all the misleading carbon figures being bandied about. Sure whatever replaces beef to a point of proper nutrition will most certainly produce carbon..i dont understand why so many leaders aren't even questioning this point.. its so reckless and i can see a period where dairycalves will be homeless, shot and/or mistreated
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Your last point is what's facing us next spring unfortunately. It doesnt bare thinking about.

Relating to carbon and the evils of meat, has to be understood under the illusionary truth effect. If you keep hearing and seeing false statement, you begin to believe them. What we have to watch out for is, who is spreading such wrong info
 
Ozzy Scott said:
It something that is often said, but Im sure as hell, lads that dropped in cattle during the protest were treated the same as normal with specs. I assume some managed to get 5c extra for the hassle. But in the factories I deal with, specs are specs and they dont change irrespective of how short they are on cattle
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I can tell you for a fact that that's not the case around here anyway.
 
Why cant the farm leaders come together and agree to get their own experts to prove to the gullible politicians that any alternative will produce x amount of carbon and at least question the credibility of any alternative. Otherwise we re in the wrong business. I think some sort of demonstration will be needed to wake up the political leaders of Europe and ask them do they want to shoot all calves or have them looked after and given a good life. They cant talk about less beef without including dairy
 
Mf240 said:
What's the difference between shooting them at birth and shooting them at two year old.

Maybe that's what's needs to happen.

A very controversial thread I started a few years ago. http://www.forum4farming.com/forum/index.php?threads/disposal-scheme-for-jerseys.9634/
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Maybe because farmers are closer to nature than any of these policymakers leeches and it's wrong? If they are destroyed then we have nothing to sell and no business.
It's up to the dairy industry to produce a calf that's worth selling instead of dumping rubbish on the market. It's costing them money to get rid of calves in some cases.
 
Mf240 said:
What's the difference between shooting them at birth and shooting them at two year old.

Maybe that's what's needs to happen.

A very controversial thread I started a few years ago. http://www.forum4farming.com/forum/index.php?threads/disposal-scheme-for-jerseys.9634/
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Think the cattle in my field might beg to differ and the opinion of alot of people, myself included.. if the people feel shooting calves at birth is a way forward., im out. But my guess is, if beef goes down the tube, then dairy wont be far behind. Hope im wrong
 
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