Beef Plan

Carrigogunnell

Well-Known Member
Any one here a part of the facebook page or your local county WhatsApp group. What are your toughts of where there are going and what there looking to achieve.
I don't think it's a bad idea and it's no harm to put a shake up in the beef industry. Are thing gone to far that it will actually make a difference.
It's gaining ground to be fair and there are good turn outs at the first two meetings.
If the mods feel it should be moved to the members section then do so.
 
Justin made a few digs at it in his editorial in today's IFJ. He wrote about how meat factories were consolidating in order to do better business and he seems to have taken offence that this group told the IFA that they didn't want their involvement. He basically said that farmers groups should be consolidating in order to achieve better prices rather than setting up new groups. It's easy to see which side his bread is buttered

My own view is that it has been in the hands of existing farmers groups for a long time now and nothing has been done. It's a dam shame that the likes of the IFA are more interested in making a profit for themselves than helping farmers make money and it's a double dam shame that groups like the IFA are so dependent on meat factories for subscriptions that they fear doing anything that may rock the apple cart for their subs.

I don't know what difference it will make. But it has to be worth a try. At least it's doing something. I intend paying my subscription for it and I will support it. I think the people who set it up are realistic. They aren't about getting subs for suckler cows or extra farm payments. They are about rewarding the working farmer through better prices for the KG's that go out the gate - and that's the way it should be! A rising tide will benefit everyone!
 
I was watching reeling in the years the last day and haughey was there with the russian prime minister . haughey seemed like a powerful man,a man with a bit of purpose and in a negotiation with him he would seem very threatening id imagine. I just cant see these lads on our side getting the better of the lads in the mii .

Nobodys going to withold supplies unfortunately. Only a certain amount of lads would be in that group chat and fewer would take any heed. You would need agents and big finishers to stop bringing in supplies and when they bring in cattle again the procurement manager will tell them to fuck off. Most agents are under the thumb of the factory amyways.
We are selling as an export nation into a bloated market. And as much as lads would like to believe grass frd image doesnt get that much of a premium. Sure i doubt any lad would know the differnece between polish and irish beef.
Main thing that has to be odne is to stop teh factories buying cattle in autumn scarcening supplies making stores dear then using them stores to suppress the price of finsihed cattle a few months later.

If producer groups are introduced though it can only be good for beef. Im not sure how theyll be implemented though
 
Best of luck to them, whether the people behind it are right or wrong at least they're trying to make a difference and I hope it has a positive outcome. The one remark I'd have is I'd reckon the membership figures are a bit disingenuous, I'm not a suckler farmer and I was added to the Whatsapp group for a county I never resided in. It would appear that once someone is a member of one of the groups they're being counted as an active member, I know I could go through the phone and add a dozen or more people to the list and they wouldn't know the difference as they might have Whatsapp but they haven't a clue how it works. I think aiming for such a massive membership of 40,000 from day one is a mistake as it is highly implausible to get anywhere near that figure and you run the risk of the whole thing being classed as a failure no matter how big a crowd you gather. Likewise setting out such an ambitious and wind-ranging 86 point plan that ultimately leads to buying a factory and establishing export markets is a bit over-ambitious. You have to crawl before you can walk. Also is focusing on suckler farmers only the most effective way of controlling the supply chain to the factories? If every suckler farmer in the country who was finishing cattle withheld their stock on an given day or week would it come anywhere near to 40% of the total kill?
 
Is there a link anywhere to the 86 page plan? I watched a few clips of a meeting they had in mayo last night om Facebook, I’m not a beef farmer so I will not be joining it. Are the journal and the save our suckers campaign on board with this also?
 
Is there a link anywhere to the 86 page plan? I watched a few clips of a meeting they had in mayo last night om Facebook, I’m not a beef farmer so I will not be joining it. Are the journal and the save our suckers campaign on board with this also?
I have it as a Word document
 
Justin made a few digs at it in his editorial in today's IFJ. He wrote about how meat factories were consolidating in order to do better business and he seems to have taken offence that this group told the IFA that they didn't want their involvement. He basically said that farmers groups should be consolidating in order to achieve better prices rather than setting up new groups. It's easy to see which side his bread is buttered

My own view is that it has been in the hands of existing farmers groups for a long time now and nothing has been done. It's a dam shame that the likes of the IFA are more interested in making a profit for themselves than helping farmers make money and it's a double dam shame that groups like the IFA are so dependent on meat factories for subscriptions that they fear doing anything that may rock the apple cart for their subs.

I don't know what difference it will make. But it has to be worth a try. At least it's doing something. I intend paying my subscription for it and I will support it. I think the people who set it up are realistic. They aren't about getting subs for suckler cows or extra farm payments. They are about rewarding the working farmer through better prices for the KG's that go out the gate - and that's the way it should be! A rising tide will benefit everyone!

Don't forget though mucky this is the same Justin who worked for/was going to work for Larry before Matt Dempsey retired....
 
Are the journal and the save our suckers campaign on board with this also?

Journal/IFA met the group with a view to being the lead in it and were told that their services were not required because they wanted to keep politics, alternative agendas etc out of it.

The focus, they claim, is not on subsidies but on fair prices which will reward those who are working hard.
 
Are the journal and the save our suckers campaign on board with this also?

Journal/IFA met the group with a view to being the lead in it and were told that their services were not required because they wanted to keep politics, alternative agendas etc out of it.

The focus, they claim, is not on subsidies but on fair prices which will reward those who are working hard.
 
Journal/IFA met the group with a view to being the lead in it and were told that their services were not required because they wanted to keep politics, alternative agendas etc out of it.

The focus, they claim, is not on subsidies but on fair prices which will reward those who are working hard.
It seems to me that it is being driven by suckler farmers mainly or am I wrong?
Your a suckler farmer mucky and fair play to ya you seem to be making a good go at it and trying hard and you never complain about the price of X and Y etc as you seem to produce quality stock, do them well, manage grass well and do all the basic things right. From an outsider looking into the beef producing sector and I suppose as part of the day job I have dealings with beef guys but by god there is some heap of messers involved in it, be it bad quality suckler cows, badly done weanlings, half finished cattle, crucified in the factory then, brutal grassland management, poor dosing or vaccination programmes etc etc, these seem to be the guys that are always giving out, same applies to some tillage and dairy lads also. I think looking in that there is a lot of tidying up that can be done inside their own farm gates first. As I said this is not a dig at you or suckler or beef farmers in general it’s just a comment and a conversation that has come up a few times over the last few weeks with people I met.
 
It seems to me that it is being driven by suckler farmers mainly or am I wrong?
Your a suckler farmer mucky and fair play to ya you seem to be making a good go at it and trying hard and you never complain about the price of X and Y etc as you seem to produce quality stock, do them well, manage grass well and do all the basic things right. From an outsider looking into the beef producing sector and I suppose as part of the day job I have dealings with beef guys but by god there is some heap of messers involved in it, be it bad quality suckler cows, badly done weanlings, half finished cattle, crucified in the factory then, brutal grassland management, poor dosing or vaccination programmes etc etc, these seem to be the guys that are always giving out, same applies to some tillage and dairy lads also. I think looking in that there is a lot of tidying up that can be done inside their own farm gates first. As I said this is not a dig at you or suckler or beef farmers in general it’s just a comment and a conversation that has come up a few times over the last few weeks with people I met.

I agree with every point that you make bar your first one. It is being driven by beef finishers rather than suckler farmers. In fact, in one statement that they have issued, they state that its inevitable that suckler cow numbers will have to decrease in the future in order to have a future for those who want suckler bred farmers.

As a suckler farmer, my reason for backing it is that I believe a rising tide will lift all of us.
 
It seems to me that it is being driven by suckler farmers mainly or am I wrong?
Your a suckler farmer mucky and fair play to ya you seem to be making a good go at it and trying hard and you never complain about the price of X and Y etc as you seem to produce quality stock, do them well, manage grass well and do all the basic things right. From an outsider looking into the beef producing sector and I suppose as part of the day job I have dealings with beef guys but by god there is some heap of messers involved in it, be it bad quality suckler cows, badly done weanlings, half finished cattle, crucified in the factory then, brutal grassland management, poor dosing or vaccination programmes etc etc, these seem to be the guys that are always giving out, same applies to some tillage and dairy lads also. I think looking in that there is a lot of tidying up that can be done inside their own farm gates first. As I said this is not a dig at you or suckler or beef farmers in general it’s just a comment and a conversation that has come up a few times over the last few weeks with people I met.

Some stuff that entered my head about your post during the night. It makes excellent points. I feel the need to point out why we can't wholly compare suckler farmers to dairy.

Money is the big thing. The money is just not in suckling to invest back into the farm as land improvement, machines and even as fertilizer and lime.

Time. Most suckler farmers have to have an off farm job to survive. So the time just isn't there to put in the work to keep the place up to scratch. In my own case in lucky that my father is still relatively young and fit. But I see many neighbours and as thy get older, the place deteriorates.

Finally age. With age comes complacency and unwilling to change and inability to see that change is needed and that it would be good.

But the second 2 points all come back to money. If there was money out of it there would be lads lining up to taken over farms, but suckling is in decline and its showing all the signs of decline.
 
The reality is that suckler cows became popular because of a good subsidy.
I don't think they can pay except maybe for the top producers who are ticking every box and even then it's questionable.
Costs keep rising .
This beef plan is a good theory.
I will be delighted if it succeeds.
I'm not holding my breath though.
Unless international prices improved a lot we aren't going to see much changes.
The margins supermarkets have is a disgrace in my book.
Changing it won't be easy
 
The reality is that suckler cows became popular because of a good subsidy.
I don't think they can pay except maybe for the top producers who are ticking every box and even then it's questionable.
Costs keep rising .
This beef plan is a good theory.
I will be delighted if it succeeds.
I'm not holding my breath though.
Unless international prices improved a lot we aren't going to see much changes.
The margins supermarkets have is a disgrace in my book.
Changing it won't be easy

Used to have a small herd of sucklers. I took them to the factory about ten years ago and never noticed a drop in income
 
The reality is that suckler cows became popular because of a good subsidy.
I don't think they can pay except maybe for the top producers who are ticking every box and even then it's questionable.
Costs keep rising .
This beef plan is a good theory.
I will be delighted if it succeeds.
I'm not holding my breath though.
Unless international prices improved a lot we aren't going to see much changes.
The margins supermarkets have is a disgrace in my book.
Changing it won't be easy

But that also means that those buying suckler bred weanlings for less than they cost to produce are not sustainable either.

The whole suckler system from breeding to finishing needs a price rise or else we'll all be going raising the black and white bred lads. There are a number of ways that this can happen but the ultimate way is probably going to have to be a considerable further reduction in suckler cow numbers.
 
Suckler bred beef isn't better quality than beef from the dairy herd in eating terms.
Suckler bred animals are slightly more efficient at converting feed.
Their carcasses are much heavier with a higher percentage of high value cuts.
It costs money to put that weight there though.
I used to bucket rear calves,often bought runners at the end of the year also.
Now I buy all suckler bred bull weanlings .
Reason is I sell them as forward stores and the better grades are easier sold and a better range of customers.
Finishers are slightly better off than breeders atm but still no good for ordinary size farmers
 
The reality is that suckler cows became popular because of a good subsidy.
I don't think they can pay except maybe for the top producers who are ticking every box and even then it's questionable.
Costs keep rising .
This beef plan is a good theory.
I will be delighted if it succeeds.
I'm not holding my breath though.
Unless international prices improved a lot we aren't going to see much changes.
The margins supermarkets have is a disgrace in my book.
Changing it won't be easy
You have to own the supermarket and the processor.
 
Suckler bred beef isn't better quality than beef from the dairy herd in eating terms.
Suckler bred animals are slightly more efficient at converting feed.
Their carcasses are much heavier with a higher percentage of high value cuts.
It costs money to put that weight there though.
I used to bucket rear calves,often bought runners at the end of the year also.
Now I buy all suckler bred bull weanlings .
Reason is I sell them as forward stores and the better grades are easier sold and a better range of customers.
Finishers are slightly better off than breeders atm but still no good for ordinary size farmers

If suckler cow numbers fall and weanlings increase slightly will you be tempted to switch from the colour back to the black and white?
 
If they go up in value it will more than likely drag up the price of the fr

Well if suckler bred cattle get shorter in supply and bucket fed animals become more prominent (which is inevitable), then factories are hardly likely to have to pay bonuses for AA or HE bred cattle. If they change the gap in price / kg between the grades and if this means that U grades are worth significantly more than P's, (which has been discussed at beef plan meetings), then the suckler bred animal will be a better price.

I'm not saying it's going to happen, but factories will always cut what they have an abundance of and blame it on the markets. If most farmers start bringing o and p grade animals to them then they will start looking for U and R grades.
 
I've been thinking on this this past week or 10 days.
We know we have to be either cheaper or better to compete for shelf space in supermarkets as they don't care if we make money or not it's about them making money.
It's not sustainable to keep making it cheaper. So we have to be better.
One other option us to be just as good, and provide our own market space for selling the product and compete in providing a different shopping experience to sell our products.
From my experience of eating beef consistency of the eating quality of mainly steak is a problem. It's so hit and miss. I'd say half the time in a restaurant it's average or below. At home I'd never bother as even following cooking instructions to the letter I've never had a good steak at home cooked by myself or anyone else.
Now what I'd argue is that in the I'm using the wrong methods of cooking the different steaks im buying in the shop.
Maybe if we used traceability to ensure what quality the steak im buying actually is and providing information on how to best prepare it and ensure that 8 or 9 times out of 10 it's a good eating experience that might add value to it or at least provide that extra something to using our product from our shop instead of somewhere else.
Maybe a phone app to buy from home and pick up in store to save yourself time. Provide suggestions on meals and what ingredients you need to buy. Maybe even not centre it around just buying the food but keeping track on what ingredients you've bought and how much you actually need to buy.
Maybe a YouTube channel providing cooking instructions, visits to local suppliers etc.
Say have a weekly competition, provide an ingredients list and have customers send in pictures of their dishes they came up with using that list, pick a winner and have a weekly show where a celebrity will visit them at their home to recreate it.
Lots of things you could do on that end to add value to shopping at your store.
What we could do as farmers is provide a consistent product. No cut corners and provide it to a strict plan to ensure consistency. Weather that be grass fed or indoor grain fed.
In reality we only need an extra euro a kg at the farm gate to do this. Bloody mince is selling at nearly twice the average price of beef, it can't be that hard to put a euro in the farmers pocket.
 
I've been thinking on this this past week or 10 days.
We know we have to be either cheaper or better to compete for shelf space in supermarkets as they don't care if we make money or not it's about them making money.
It's not sustainable to keep making it cheaper. So we have to be better.
One other option us to be just as good, and provide our own market space for selling the product and compete in providing a different shopping experience to sell our products.
From my experience of eating beef consistency of the eating quality of mainly steak is a problem. It's so hit and miss. I'd say half the time in a restaurant it's average or below. At home I'd never bother as even following cooking instructions to the letter I've never had a good steak at home cooked by myself or anyone else.
Now what I'd argue is that in the I'm using the wrong methods of cooking the different steaks im buying in the shop.
Maybe if we used traceability to ensure what quality the steak im buying actually is and providing information on how to best prepare it and ensure that 8 or 9 times out of 10 it's a good eating experience that might add value to it or at least provide that extra something to using our product from our shop instead of somewhere else.
Maybe a phone app to buy from home and pick up in store to save yourself time. Provide suggestions on meals and what ingredients you need to buy. Maybe even not centre it around just buying the food but keeping track on what ingredients you've bought and how much you actually need to buy.
Maybe a YouTube channel providing cooking instructions, visits to local suppliers etc.
Say have a weekly competition, provide an ingredients list and have customers send in pictures of their dishes they came up with using that list, pick a winner and have a weekly show where a celebrity will visit them at their home to recreate it.
Lots of things you could do on that end to add value to shopping at your store.
What we could do as farmers is provide a consistent product. No cut corners and provide it to a strict plan to ensure consistency. Weather that be grass fed or indoor grain fed.
In reality we only need an extra euro a kg at the farm gate to do this. Bloody mince is selling at nearly twice the average price of beef, it can't be that hard to put a euro in the farmers pocket.

Totally agree. Only one problem.
80% of the beef that we produce is exported.
 
I've been thinking on this this past week or 10 days.
We know we have to be either cheaper or better to compete for shelf space in supermarkets as they don't care if we make money or not it's about them making money.
It's not sustainable to keep making it cheaper. So we have to be better.
One other option us to be just as good, and provide our own market space for selling the product and compete in providing a different shopping experience to sell our products.
From my experience of eating beef consistency of the eating quality of mainly steak is a problem. It's so hit and miss. I'd say half the time in a restaurant it's average or below. At home I'd never bother as even following cooking instructions to the letter I've never had a good steak at home cooked by myself or anyone else.
Now what I'd argue is that in the I'm using the wrong methods of cooking the different steaks im buying in the shop.
Maybe if we used traceability to ensure what quality the steak im buying actually is and providing information on how to best prepare it and ensure that 8 or 9 times out of 10 it's a good eating experience that might add value to it or at least provide that extra something to using our product from our shop instead of somewhere else.
Maybe a phone app to buy from home and pick up in store to save yourself time. Provide suggestions on meals and what ingredients you need to buy. Maybe even not centre it around just buying the food but keeping track on what ingredients you've bought and how much you actually need to buy.
Maybe a YouTube channel providing cooking instructions, visits to local suppliers etc.
Say have a weekly competition, provide an ingredients list and have customers send in pictures of their dishes they came up with using that list, pick a winner and have a weekly show where a celebrity will visit them at their home to recreate it.
Lots of things you could do on that end to add value to shopping at your store.
What we could do as farmers is provide a consistent product. No cut corners and provide it to a strict plan to ensure consistency. Weather that be grass fed or indoor grain fed.
In reality we only need an extra euro a kg at the farm gate to do this. Bloody mince is selling at nearly twice the average price of beef, it can't be that hard to put a euro in the farmers pocket.
Fair play JCB, that's an excellent thought-provoking post. Wish your 'joined-up' thinking was as common among our farming organisations!!
 
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