Beef plan

Discussion in 'Stock Talk' started by avent, Apr 13, 2019.

  1. ponderosa

    ponderosa Well-Known Member

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    I asked the question of restricting nitrates limits on farm in the hope of producing less for more money.. can anybody see merit in it or come up with some alternative .?
     
  2. jcb411abuser

    jcb411abuser Well-Known Member

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    My issue with that is we would be doing that based on outside interest and regulation, and you still have to sell through factories and supermarkets, so the main problem remains, they will source the beef from elsewhere(new South American supply) if they have to maintain supply.
    The problem is control and farmers have absolutely zero control right now.
    We need our own processing and our own shop. And we shouldn't be looking at the government as something that restricts us but challenging them to make it easier for us.
     
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  3. ponderosa

    ponderosa Well-Known Member

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    Is it time to let the processors buy youngstock from dairyherds and pay us a rate to bring them from start weight to finish weight ? There is currently far too much gambling going on for the ordinary farmer who s doing his best to put food on the table
     
  4. muckymanor

    muckymanor Well-Known Member

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    That's impossible to do because we already have an uneven playing field where lads are getting Basic Payments based on what they did 20 years ago. They don't have to make a profit out of an animal that they buy or sell. They just have to go through the motions in order to draw down their basic payments. Why would factories pay farmers to grow animals for them when lads are ready and willing to do it at a loss already???
     
  5. ponderosa

    ponderosa Well-Known Member

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    You re right, but with bps reducing year on year and these lads getting older. Is the time coming where they will run out of lads willing to do it for nothing. ? More often than not, individual buyers pay too much for youngstock, whether its calves or yearlings...that would never happen if the processors took on that part. Just a thought
     
  6. jcb411abuser

    jcb411abuser Well-Known Member

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    There will be no point in time where they will give you any more than what keeps you producing.
    Honestly if beef went to 4euro tomorrow morning beef farmers would be jumping with joy and everything would resume as normal but that still isn't a decent return compared to what the factory and supermarkets are getting.
     
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  7. marco

    marco Well-Known Member

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    Looks like beef plan are looking for more money for es and u grade cattle. Surely this defeats the point as this are the smallest % of cattle killed.

    Why are they paying more fore e and us anyway as the market wants angus and hereford with eating quality no big lumps of meat.
     
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  8. jay gatsby

    jay gatsby Well-Known Member

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    From speaking to a few men in beef plan over the last year my feeling is that their main aim is to protect sucklers and have bigger bonuses paid for this type of stock.

    I got the impression they would leave the dairy type stock to the feedlots and let others take their chances. Maybe look to have a flat price quoted for a larger number of stock and bonuses only for higher quality animals. Wouldn't be surprised to see that reflected in a new grid.

    I don't think it's a good solution but that was my impression.
     
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  9. Arthur

    Arthur Well-Known Member

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    TBH I cant see any worthwhile benefit coming out of these talks without the retailers being brought aboard and a full disclosure of where the profits are going all along the chain, on the point of the price moving back to €4/kg what usually happens is the mart prices rise by €100 in tandem with it and the lad that's buying to finish cattle is tying up more money and his margin is no better.
     
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  10. ponderosa

    ponderosa Well-Known Member

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    I personally see a better chance on some kind of contract rearing. Tell the processor or dairyfarmer how much you need per kg to bring animal to agreed weight, or else let them take their stock elsewhere
     
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  11. jcb411abuser

    jcb411abuser Well-Known Member

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    Is that true though? The bulk of beef is sold as mince, and the high value mince is 10%fat from looking at prices of different beef products on tesco website, so how is having a fatty animal like a hereford bullock going to be advantageous.
    There are still questions over the added eating value of bullock vs bull steaks and roasts, but it's all the same when minced but it sells different when you can market it as lower fat.
    Would that not be a market advantage for bull beef in today's market place to be lower in fat? The eating difference is slight when comparing young bulls to 2 year old bullocks from what I've read.
     
  12. jcb411abuser

    jcb411abuser Well-Known Member

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    And they will go elsewhere. They'll set up their own feedlots and lift red card restrictions.
     
  13. Barrowsider

    Barrowsider Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, the grid is of more use to the factories than the beef farmer. My point is that using report averages and isolated trials to deduce that all dairy bred stock is far inferior to suckler bred stock is not correct. Good quality beef stock can be produced from the dairy herd and it’s in the best interest of both our beef and dairy industries that dairy farmers are encouraged to produce such stock in the future.
     
  14. 6600

    6600 Well-Known Member

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    The whole reason for it existing is to help regain some of the ground sucklers have lost in the last few years. This thing escalated massively after the government voted for the Mercosur deal and the Fitzgerald report really put the cap on it. Suckler farmers feel like they have been deserted by the people supposed to represent them. It is almost as if there is an agenda to eliminate the farmers from the country. There's less than 10k dairy farmers in the country and that seems to be all they want. It's not an exaggeration when you look at profit levels in tillage or sheep, the other real alternatives. I was in Clare recently and there is very little else over there other than sucklers, the land is farmed well and the land is producing something for the economy and keeping employment in the place. The suckler cow is the only thing that doubles her value each year. My opinion is that suckling done commercially is the only thing to compare to dairy having experience of both. Bringing fresian calves to beef you're still up against the feed efficiency problem, sheep and tillage are really not at the races

    The grading system is the measurement of the proportion of saleable meat on a given carcase and the killout %. A U grade will kill out at about 65% and an O will be 50% at best. The higher grade will have less fat and more higher value meat on a carcase also. There can be nearly double the meat on an E animal compared to an O of the same weight and their feed efficiency is also much higher. By paying such a small variation between grades the factories are getting this meat for free. This was all explained when I went to ag college, do they not teach these basics anymore? Where do people hear this about the market demanding AA and Hereford? Probably ETTG or some other source of bs. The customer wants whatever is cheapest, the farmer has to produce whatever is most profitable for him.
     
  15. eddie86

    eddie86 Well-Known Member

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    A few years ago average farm incomes were published for sucklers sheep and dairy farms excluding sfp figures were something like -6000 +6000 +30,000 respectively. Sheep is probably not as bad as you think. Obviously it won't replace suckler farming and it has terrible ups and downs but just saying.
     
  16. ponderosa

    ponderosa Well-Known Member

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    If the sucklers get something, great... But i fear there is a group of mostly younger operators providing a home for dairystock..mostly with tiny bps, that could get forgotten here and the beef plan and 'our' minister need to think about protecting us as opposed to throwing us under the bus
     
  17. DES1

    DES1 Member

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    I presume you had to feed them meal to get them factory ready? All told (including mortality) is there a few bob to be made killing them before 2nd winter? This is the model Teagasc are promoting on a lot of the demonstration "Better Farms", so just wondering if it is really feasible ?
     
  18. Limestone Cowboy

    Limestone Cowboy Well-Known Member

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    Going by the ifj open day in Tullamore I'd say no unless you have no debt and huge scale. Teagasc always push a high input high output approach and it's probably not the best approach with beef at it's current price.
     
  19. Mf240

    Mf240 Well-Known Member

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    A lot of lads would be well cooled if sfp was to go. In all fairness 2002 is a long time ago at this stage
     
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  20. diesel power

    diesel power Well-Known Member

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    Often said it, a 5c rise in the factories = a 50 euro rise in the marts.
     
  21. jay gatsby

    jay gatsby Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely. Regardless of what the industry looks like in 6 months time I think the day of cattle changing hands 2 and 3 times might be numbered. There might be enough of a twist for one man to bring them through from calf to kill but I can't see the status quo and multiple owners trying to make a buck working in future
     
  22. 4255

    4255 Well-Known Member

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    Like the chicken industry. Only thing all cattle are different in time and weight of finished dates
     
  23. Ozzy Scott

    Ozzy Scott Well-Known Member

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    no grain for the calves I rear myself. Was a few bob in them, but not so sure this year at €3.50. My Mortality is way too high and it only causes issues from day 120 onwards for some unknown reason. lost 4% of them again a few weeks ago with respiratory infection even though vaccinated, in isolated land block. too much work and getting too much of a hole kicking from sick calves. cost 230 this year, would have to be back to 150 next year to make me consider them. Too many good calves pumped on whole milk turn into bad calves later in life, too hit and miss, breeding is way off the mark
     
  24. nashmach

    nashmach Moderator

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    It's already happening! You have the Blade Farming model in the UK and the North absinthe for a minute think that Larry and Co don't have some farmers doing similar to your concept.

    I agree with your thoughts. I honestly believe it is the middle of the road stock which will come out the worst from this.

    I do hope we will see the pricing index developed which sounds very like what I had mentioned earlier.
     
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  25. ponderosa

    ponderosa Well-Known Member

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    Thats pure sickening for you id say. Currently feeding 1 kg in good weather and 2 kg in a wet weather. Works for me in that i dont suffer losses. Usually wean off for couple months before winter, once weather settles a bit..I Throw powder on if bad coughing starts. Its an extra job though
     

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