botulism

Discussion in 'Stock Talk' started by humungus, Sep 28, 2018.

  1. humungus

    humungus Well-Known Member

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    the dept are clamping down on chicken litter being spread on tillage land here in wexford after a few major incidences of botulism here in the county, letters sent to anyone taking it in telling them it has to be stored under cover and ploughed down immediately after spreading i,d say its only a matter of time before its outlawed altogher
     
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  2. carrick

    carrick Well-Known Member

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    Its a shame the department wouldn't divert their resources to the management of the poultry farms rather than the secondary users of the byproduct.
    Chicken litter is of no threat to anyone, it is the carcasses of dead poultry that is a threat.
    If poultry farms were penalized in the same way any other livestock farm would be treated for allowing sick and dead animals to remain among the healthy stock, the litter would be a valuable asset.
    There are some excellent poultry farmers out there, I have walked some of these houses. These good farmers can identify sick birds at any age, in any population and remove them.
    Other farmers simply focus on the targets set by the bird owners, leave for off farm jobs at 07;30 and return at 06;30 the next morning to check the computer is working.
    A dairy farmer with robotic milking following poor management would probably loose his herd number within months.
    The botulism caused by contaminated litter should be traced back to the poultry farm and appropriate action taken.
    This will not happen, as you can not prove the source of the botulism infection, and the Northern Ireland Government / civil service is owned by Moy Park.
    An exact count of birds in / birds out would be a start.
    If the system can not be managed, then the system needs change.
     
  3. Barrowsider

    Barrowsider Well-Known Member

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    You’re dead right, tackle the issue at source, but the fact that a substantial proportion of the litter comes from poultry farms in the north where they are not under the control of the Irish department of ag makes that very difficult.
     
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  4. Bog Man

    Bog Man Well-Known Member

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    I was at a meeting where a man was peddling chicken litter delivered and he was not taking the botulism threat seriously. You could wipe out a whole herd with it .
    Botulism is one of the agents that could be used in germ warfare .
     
  5. Bog Man

    Bog Man Well-Known Member

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  6. humungus

    humungus Well-Known Member

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    i agree with you but lads have got very slipshod about it this last few years, when it started off the litter was spread the day it arrived and the plough was following the spreader immediately but as time went on and more lackadaisical lads started taking it loads were tipped in fields and left for months uncovered and then were harrowed in , one lad spread it on grass and sold the silage off that field :curse: so its like everything if its done by the book there,s no problem its when standards slip the trouble follows
     
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  7. carrick

    carrick Well-Known Member

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    And the reason the litter is exported from the North is that it clears them of the Botulism responsibility, and the Nitrates / Phosphate overload.
    As I said, Moy Park own the civil service, so do not expect change.
    For a farm to import litter in the north, the farm must have a full farm soil sample for each field, a nitrogen budget + plan and phosphate budget + plan showing a need. Litter can only be spread on fields P 2 and below. Litter must be stored under cover, NO covered field stack.

    A southern herd / farm number in the record book for export saves all this hassle, and the inspection stops at the border. so do the complaints about dead birds in the litter.

    Try exporting a calf, dead or alive...........:scratchhead::scratchhead::2guns:
     
  8. Bog Man

    Bog Man Well-Known Member

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    Brexit will solve the export of Botulism.
     
  9. dstig

    dstig Well-Known Member

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    Ya Brexit will stop everything !!
     
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  10. carrick

    carrick Well-Known Member

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    Brexit may not happen, won't affect cheap food policy either way.
    As Jamie Oliver once said, children deserve to taste chicken, not genetically modified antibiotics.
     
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  11. humungus

    humungus Well-Known Member

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    i never eat chicken, mrs says free range is too dear so i become vegetarian when its for dinner it makes me laugh to hear nutrionalists saying its a healthy food:ban:
     
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  12. dstig

    dstig Well-Known Member

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    Ha I worked in a chicken factory one time and we were packing "free range Turkey's" for the Christmas market and when we were finished I asked the factory manager for a free range turkey as a thank you for the work his answer was " if you can find a free range turkey in here your more than welcome to take it away with you":lol::lol::lol:
     
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  13. carrick

    carrick Well-Known Member

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    Could have been bleached horse!
     
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  14. chickensandbeef

    chickensandbeef Member

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    The days of chicken litter being exported to you guys in the south are soon going to be over, ours goes to a biomass plant now and I’m told they are ready to expand it 10 fold so will need a fair whack of the broiler litter produced in the north, think there is a simaler plant in Donegal.
    I agree it’s all about removing the dead birds and we are pretty careful about removing them but there’s always going to be one dies below a feed pan or somewhere and can be missed. It only takes a tiny amount of toxin to do huge damage so you can never be to careful with the stuff. I asked my vet could If I could carry enough on my boots from the chickens to the cattle shed to do any harm and his reply was that there could be enough on the sole of my boots to kill half the population of Belfast.
    As far as I’m concerned the AD plant is the best thing ever but others don’t like giving up all that NPK
     
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  15. marco

    marco Well-Known Member

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    Surely it will come out of the digester in a better form. Win win
     
  16. jf 850

    jf 850 Well-Known Member

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    I don't know anything about AD plants.
    Would the stuff coming out of it , having had the "Good " taken from it , have much or any fertiliser value ? And would the botulism or TB etc etc risk be gone at that stage ?
     
  17. Paw

    Paw Well-Known Member

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    Don't know about TB. Botulism is cause by the toxin produced by the Clostridium botulinum bacteria which loves anaerobic conditions. The bacteria spores can survive boiling. The toxin can be broken down at temperatures of 100ºC for 10 minutes.
     
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  18. chickensandbeef

    chickensandbeef Member

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    Well they are telling us that it’s safe and free from botulism, no TB as it’s chicken litter only being used, it’s been pasteurised, we only get the liquid, it’s mighty stuff to grow grass if used in moderation, to much and you would have nitrogen problems with silage. The solids are stripped of nitrogen and exported across the border, don’t know what they are using it for.
    It’s just a temporary measure as they are going to put driers in and pellet the whole lot when they get going properly. It’s a Dublin based company operating it:Whistle2:
     
  19. chickensandbeef

    chickensandbeef Member

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    They say 1000 gallon of digestate same as a bag of str8 nitrogen
     
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  20. jcb411abuser

    jcb411abuser Well-Known Member

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    Well I'm not far away from the plant in donegal, I'm not sure on what's true or not, but there were apparently loads of chicken litter to be put through the digester that didn't make it that far and were tipped in a field down the road a bit, been a lot of cases of salmonella antibodies suddenly showing up in bulk tank tests locally after. I dont know if the wild birds can pick it up and transfer it in their shit when say eating meal in tmr or what or if it's all coincidence.
     
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  21. chickensandbeef

    chickensandbeef Member

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    Can’t speak for Donegal but the one near here is a well run operation, there would be none of that going on.
     
  22. legsandland

    legsandland Well-Known Member

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    Have been shooting crows and pigeons around the yard the last few weeks an there are plenty lying around the field and I presume a few on top of the sheds .
    Anyone know if this could cause a botulism risk ?
     
  23. jcb411abuser

    jcb411abuser Well-Known Member

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    Yes, any decaying flesh can carry the bacteria which produce the toxin, if they somehow come in contact with you or your animals you are at risk. Contaminated soil is a risk too I believe.
     
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  24. AYF

    AYF Well-Known Member

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    A farm has recently lost a serious amount of cattle to botulism.
    They presume something was in the silage... in the mixer wagon.... you get the picture.
    Not nice!
     
  25. scoffcruddle

    scoffcruddle Well-Known Member

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    I know someone who 12 months ago lost 75% of his milkers to it,feck it makes you paranoid.
     
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