Brexit

That's all very well if you have a business that only you rely on, if you make a decision based on pride that ultimately harms your bottom line at least in the short to medium term, that's your problem and no one else's.

Then again, if you were running a business employing 100 people, and you make this type of decision, if it doesn't work out you may have to turn round to some of those people and tell them they don't have a job anymore.

then again, you could be running a country with 60 odd million people relying on you to maintain a viable economy, keep the lights on, the supermarket shelves full and the health service operating as it should. You can't just keep walking because you have a responsibility to all those people not to flush their functioning society down the toilet to satisfy your pride and selfish vanity.

simple things like having that brand of bread you like fresh on the supermarket shelves every day relies on complex just in time logistic services which in tern depend on the EU's open borders to work properly, there are many people who depend on regular prescription medication that won't be available in the event of a no deal scenario, medicines like insulin can't be stockpiled either.

If you burn everything down then you have to start from scratch on day one and rebuild complex regulatory and trade relationships, this isn't going to happen over night and people will suffer in the meantime.

Don't bother with the spirit of the blitz stuff because that's not what the prominent leave campaigners were saying during the referendum. doing a deal would be easy, they said, well they've proved themselves to be like the dog that caught the car and didn't know what to do next, because leave campaigners have been at the heart of the brexit negotiation process from day one and look at where we are now.

If you really want to leave without a deal then let's have a vote on it and see what the will of the people is on that one, because if you're so sure that's what people voted for, what's the problem with asking them again?
 
and presumably some people voted because they believed there really would be £350 million a week for the NHS and doing a deal would be easy.

Well it turns out, unsurprisingly, that doing a deal wasn't that easy after all, leaving with no deal has serious consequences, and it's a very different outcome than what was promised by leading leave campaigners at the time of the vote.

So i say again, if you're so convinced no deal was what people voted for, why are you worried about a second vote?
 
Remember on "who wants to be a millionaire"

Is that you final answer. Or do you want to phone a friend
 
This is good

https://twitter.com/BorderIrish/status/1071314555987521536

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I particularly like the explanation of the backstop:

Dt4ToSbXcAAcAlc.jpg
 
and presumably some people voted because they believed there really would be £350 million a week for the NHS and doing a deal would be easy.

Well it turns out, unsurprisingly, that doing a deal wasn't that easy after all, leaving with no deal has serious consequences, and it's a very different outcome than what was promised by leading leave campaigners at the time of the vote.

So i say again, if you're so convinced no deal was what people voted for, why are you worried about a second vote?
Our democracy is we had the vote .we were told in or out and we voted out.
Get over it there wont be a second vote
 
It’s amazing how it’s Undemocratic to find out the will of the people now. Democracy obviously ended the day after the referendum.
Maybe some people are afraid public opinion has changed because if it hasn’t they have nothing to fear !
 
so why not have a vote between the different options? if you're so confident no deal was what people voted for, then that's clearly the way to get what you want.
I believe there should be another vote for the repeal the 8th referndum, doesnt mean there should be though. Uk has made their bed and has to sleep with it. Let may do the deal and hopefully there isn't too much disruptio
 
i just asked a question, i suppose you could always just answer it.
The thing that I’ve noticed in any of the staunch “leave” brigades responses to questions asked on social media is that they’re usually about one sentence long, don’t address the question asked and are filled with terrible spelling, kind of gives you an insight into what you’re dealing with. If they could give their alternative proposals rather than just “out means out” you could have a level of respect. A guy on TFF asked why couldn’t they just change the border around to follow rivers etc in NI so they wouldn’t have to build a hard border, best of luck going around telling an Irish farmer that you’re now in the UK and vice versa to his NI neighbor :rolleyes2:
 
The thing that I’ve noticed in any of the staunch “leave” brigades responses to questions asked on social media is that they’re usually about one sentence long, don’t address the question asked and are filled with terrible spelling, kind of gives you an insight into what you’re dealing with. If they could give their alternative proposals rather than just “out means out” you could have a level of respect. A guy on TFF asked why couldn’t they just change the border around to follow rivers etc in NI so they wouldn’t have to build a hard border, best of luck going around telling an Irish farmer that you’re now in the UK and vice versa to his NI neighbor :rolleyes2:

I’ve looked at the Brexit discussion on tff a few times too in the hope of reading a coherent and balanced conversation.
Unfortunately it seems to turn into a mudslinging match on most occasions.

Latest polls show an increase in those who want to remain one poll showing remain at 49% and 38% want to leave.
With the deal likely to be voted down tomorrow, what next?
I don’t think the eu will really give any more as it just sets a precedent.
So then it’s a no deal Brexit which it doesn’t seem anyone wants or a second referendum on a number of options - what these options would be is another question.
 
I’ve looked at the Brexit discussion on tff a few times too in the hope of reading a coherent and balanced conversation.
Unfortunately it seems to turn into a mudslinging match on most occasions.

Latest polls show an increase in those who want to remain one poll showing remain at 49% and 38% want to leave.
With the deal likely to be voted down tomorrow, what next?
I don’t think the eu will really give any more as it just sets a precedent.
So then it’s a no deal Brexit which it doesn’t seem anyone wants or a second referendum on a number of options - what these options would be is another question.

Short answer, no one knows, it's a mess and anything could happen,

best guess, for what it's worth, i'll stick with what i said a while back on this thread, any deal to leave was always going to be unsatisfactory, sell out from the hard leave point of view and for obvious reasons much worse than the deal we have now from the remain viewpoint.

It's very likely, but by no means certain, that May's deal will be voted down, which pushes us into a no deal scenario, but, if no deal looks likely, this is so potentially catastrophic for the UK that parliament will have to grow a back bone and find a solution. this could be an election, but is more likely to be a second referendum. Or they could bottle it and pass may's deal on a second vote.

There's a cross party majority for remain in parliament, so it's possible that some MPs will put country before party and make a bilateral attempt to sort out a solution. another vote would be extremely divisive, as per the comments above about the TFF thread, there's a large minority with very fixed and bigoted views on this, and they ain't going to like it, but leaving is such a monumentally bad idea that it would be a manifest failure of our politicians if they were allow this to happen.
 
The thing that I’ve noticed in any of the staunch “leave” brigades responses to questions asked on social media is that they’re usually about one sentence long, don’t address the question asked and are filled with terrible spelling, kind of gives you an insight into what you’re dealing with. If they could give their alternative proposals rather than just “out means out” you could have a level of respect. A guy on TFF asked why couldn’t they just change the border around to follow rivers etc in NI so they wouldn’t have to build a hard border, best of luck going around telling an Irish farmer that you’re now in the UK and vice versa to his NI neighbor :rolleyes2:

Basically it's like we're all on a plane and some people didn't like where the plane was going so voted to jump out, we've now been told that there aren't any parachutes, but some still want to jump out and are insisting that if we flap our arm hard enough, it will be ok.

The real problem is that some of the people displaying these levels of stupidity are MPs, even cabinet members. (take the comment above by Priti Patel about starving the Irish out to get them to drop the backstop, what was she thinking?) I suppose that in a representative democracy, if 30% of the population are idiots, it's only right that the same should be true for 30% of MPs
 
seeing as this is descending into calling people "idiots" and "their stupidity" im out
it usually means the thread has run is course and 1 side or another doesn't like which way something has gone and descends into insults etc
as they say "you cant argue with stupid"
Basically it's like we're all on a plane and some people didn't like where the plane was going so voted to jump out, we've now been told that there aren't any parachutes, but some still want to jump out and are insisting that if we flap our arm hard enough, it will be ok.

The real problem is that some of the people displaying these levels of stupidity are MPs, even cabinet members. (take the comment above by Priti Patel about starving the Irish out to get them to drop the backstop, what was she thinking?) I suppose that in a representative democracy, if 30% of the population are idiots, it's only right that the same should be true for 30% of MPs
 
seeing as this is descending into calling people "idiots" and "their stupidity" im out
it usually means the thread has run is course and 1 side or another doesn't like which way something has gone and descends into insults etc
as they say "you cant argue with stupid"

First off, i didn't call you an idiot, secondly, you could always, you know, answer the question, thirdly, if you're planning on taking the moral high ground, I'd suggest you might want to re think having an avatar lifted directly from someone's revenge porn stash.
 
The vote has been called off. May is to go back to Europe to seek more concessions. Pressure is building in the cooker. Something tells me that its not going to end well for May and that her days and the days of her government are numbered. Both May and Corbyn are talking about the possibility of an election. If there is one, will either of them run on the promise that if they are elected then they will have a new referendum? Whatever way it goes, it's going to be turmoil for the next 4 months!
 
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