Calf feeding

Discussion in 'Stock Talk' started by podge 23, Jan 9, 2019.

  1. podge 23

    podge 23 Well-Known Member

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    Any 1 have any advice on pros and cons of using shine once a day milk replacer for calves ?
     
  2. bruceythom

    bruceythom Well-Known Member

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    I used it here 2 years ago. If I was given it for free I wouldn't use it again.
     
  3. Ozzy Scott

    Ozzy Scott Well-Known Member

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    That product or OAD feeding? I have never used shine but I always was "told" it was the bees knees
     
  4. bruceythom

    bruceythom Well-Known Member

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    The product. Its only 18% Protein so its off to a bad start. Went through 2½ pallets of it wondering why my calves were performing poorly. Changed powder and immediately you could see the difference in the calves.
     
  5. Carrigogunnell

    Carrigogunnell Well-Known Member

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    Really that's something u would rearly hear about shine oad...why is the protein so low
     
  6. bruceythom

    bruceythom Well-Known Member

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    I have to apologise and retract that, its 20% Protein, which is slightly better than really bad.
    When we decided (with help from an independent nutritionalist) that the powder was the route of our problem, we changed to Volac easimix and straight away the calves had more solid dungs, they started to eat more concentrate, and coughing stopped. After a few days we had no more scours (which had been a major problem) and they started to thrive much better. My advice, for what it's worth, would be to talk to an independent nutritionalist. The one we employed wouldn't tell us which powders to use/not use, but was exceptionally good at educating us on deciding what to use.
     
  7. Carrigogunnell

    Carrigogunnell Well-Known Member

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    Interesting outcome thanks
     
  8. podge 23

    podge 23 Well-Known Member

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    Would i be right in saying that it is hard to beat whole milk twice a day ?
     
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  9. jcb411abuser

    jcb411abuser Well-Known Member

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    Most milk replaces are around 20/20 protein to fat ratio, some might be 24/18 blah blah whatever.
    The important part is that you mix per bag instructions to 110g of powder in a litre of water, this gives you 1110g of solution, which basically in a 20/20 powder scenario gives you a mixture that is 2% protein and 2% fat.
    Whole milk will be twice the amount of fat, which is the calfs energy source and time and half as much protein which provides the building blocks to grow.
    We should all be feeding whole milk. How we were ever convinced that you could sell whole milk to the processor and have it dried and sold back to us for less than what we received out the gate is beyond me.
    There is 4kgs of fat and 4kgs protein in a 20kg bag of 20/20 milk replacer
    There is 4kgs of fat and 3.5kgs of protein in 100litres of whole milk and when cows calve and price drops you be lucky to get 30 euro for that 100litres.
    At the minute milk replacer is running around 40 euro a bag for 20% protein
    A quick look at glanbias website and at least now they seem to address the low ratio of powder to water and recommend feeding 200g of milk replacer as a litre of feed.
     
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  10. jcb411abuser

    jcb411abuser Well-Known Member

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    Plus might I add if we had bloody sense and fed calves whole milk we'd put less milk on the market and improve milk prices. A fresh cow producing 24 litres at 25c makes 6 euro of milk, same cow making 24 litres at 30c but feeding 6 litres per day to her calf returns 5.40 euro.
    It cost only 60c a day to feed the calf. Whereas if a 20kg bag of powder is 40euro it costs 2.40 euro a day to feed 6 litres, so your cow only really returns 3.60 euro.
    Absolute madness.
     
  11. Green Grass

    Green Grass Well-Known Member

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    well if you put a calf on an adlib feeder or feed three times a day it you have a far superior calf!!!
     
  12. Blackwater boy

    Blackwater boy Moderator

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    Ah no, at 125 grams per litre of powder and feeding 6 litres that’s 160 litres of milk per bag so that’s € .25 cent per litre or €1.50 per day.
     
  13. jcb411abuser

    jcb411abuser Well-Known Member

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    But at 125 grams at 20/20 Its a bit better than half as much solids as a litre of whole milk. So it takes twice as much feed to feed the same as whole milk.
    Unless you have vastly stronger strength milk powder.
     
  14. Mf240

    Mf240 Well-Known Member

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    I feed whole milk here. Never really used the powder so can't really say. I find the more meal you can get into them the better.
     
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  15. Blackwater boy

    Blackwater boy Moderator

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    750 grams of powder but I would be feeding 23/25% protein stuff tho.
     
  16. jcb411abuser

    jcb411abuser Well-Known Member

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    At 25% protein and 20% fat you're feeding 335g of solids.
    6 litres of whole milk at 4%fat and 3.5%pro is 450g of solids
    That's 34% difference.
    If you're current cost is €1.50, to meet whole milk itll cost €2.
     
  17. Carrigogunnell

    Carrigogunnell Well-Known Member

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    6x.35 is e2.10. U also have to factor in the oad option its it safe to give calves 6lts oad of whole milk. As well as that calves on powder develop the rumen quicker eat meal soon and can be weaned faster so theres a saving there. You can't say powder isn't a patch on whole milk. Theres some serious beef lads out there rearing calves and getting savage weights on them under 16 months etc. The more weight they have the more money a dairy heifer has 10 plus yrs to make her weight
     
  18. feirmeoir

    feirmeoir Well-Known Member

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    Protein quality is important not just percentage. Whey isn't cheap with all these workout powders.
     
  19. Blackwater boy

    Blackwater boy Moderator

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    Is there not trial data to prove powder milk is every bit as good as whole milk once a calf is 10 days old or more.
     
  20. jcb411abuser

    jcb411abuser Well-Known Member

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    Buts it's not 35c in the spring when you feed calves it always drops from over supply and it's made into powder.
    The reason a calf eats more meal on milk powder is because at 110g per litre of 20/20 6 litres provides maintenance feeding for a 38kg calf. The calf naturally eats meal quicker as it strives to find a feed source. That's how the system works.
    That's also assuming zero disease pressure, deep dry bedding and the air temp is 14 degrees Celsius.
    If you fed it at the same rate to make it equivalent to whole milk there would be zero difference.
     
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  21. scoffcruddle

    scoffcruddle Well-Known Member

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    Over here there is a big shift from feeding whole milk,the dairies want it because of the risk of transmitting Johnes.
     
  22. mixed fleet

    mixed fleet Well-Known Member

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    I try and keep them on whole milk for the first 3 weeks to a month . Then switch to powder .Rearing all calves .
    I fed whole milk continuously a few years .(quota issues ) I didn't think, performance was any better
    I remember this being discussed at a farmer meeting.
    The consensus was that, you get less scours on powder.
    Some lads fed powder for convenience. (calves can be fed before milking, particularly in the evenings.)
    A couple of lads are feeding whole milk in the morning and powdered milk in the evening with no issues.
     
  23. humungus

    humungus Well-Known Member

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    there is also trial data that proves cattle on bare slats do as well as cattle on straw, trials find a result to suit whoever is paying for them
     
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  24. jcb411abuser

    jcb411abuser Well-Known Member

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    Saw a data of such a trial they gave 600kg bulls 2 square metres of space in both slatted and straw bedded groups.
    They reckoned group on straw was dirtier, I wonder why that would be??
     
  25. humungus

    humungus Well-Known Member

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    if you don,t put fresh straw under them they,ll be dirtier :Whistle2:
     

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