Covid 19

nashmach said:
Need to be careful with those numbers. Different countries record the numbers different ways so caution is needed.

As I read it, we are probably the most conservative in our recording.
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True, shorter table below..... Look at the deaths per million of us VS the eastern border of the EU. We're 4 times the next worst, 9 times the average.

Ireland 352
Greece18
Bulgaria 33
Romania 87
Hungary 61
Slovakia 5
Poland 39
Lithuania 29
Latvia 16
Estonia 52

Even allowing for the level of reporting from Ireland vs other countries that's still not a great innings.

We did a good job of stopping an established infection, but those contries stemmed the infection before it got established. There are reasons around timing, and the fact that we're a very connected island nation with much higher levels of travel that those countries which alllowed it to get established early.

The reality is we are in no position to be looking down our noses at our eastern european neighbours and blaming every poor foreigner who arrives here to do work we're too good to do ourselves is neither factual nor fair.

(and I know you didnt say that nashmach, but in general)
 
A parent texted the Mrs today to see if 2 of our kids would like to come over and play on Saturday,ffs if there not going to school there not going to play at kids houses!:no:
 
JohnBoy said:
True, shorter table below..... Look at the deaths per million of us VS the eastern border of the EU. We're 4 times the next worst, 9 times the average.

Ireland 352
Greece18
Bulgaria 33
Romania 87
Hungary 61
Slovakia 5
Poland 39
Lithuania 29
Latvia 16
Estonia 52

Even allowing for the level of reporting from Ireland vs other countries that's still not a great innings.

We did a good job of stopping an established infection, but those contries stemmed the infection before it got established. There are reasons around timing, and the fact that we're a very connected island nation with much higher levels of travel that those countries which alllowed it to get established early.

The reality is we are in no position to be looking down our noses at our eastern european neighbours and blaming every poor foreigner who arrives here to do work we're too good to do ourselves is neither factual nor fair.

(and I know you didnt say that nashmach, but in general)
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Those figures are only accurate to the level of testing that was carried out in those countries. In Ireland we tested ever snotty nose, every cough and sadly every death. The vast majority of the countries above had a very poor testing policy. They only tested the people who went into hospital with specific symptoms. They didn't record deaths of people in nursing homes, many didn't test people over a certain age. The numbers in this country are about the only accurate thing that we can vouch for.

If you take Poland for example, I have been speaking to polish people working here who say that there is a dire situation there with covid 19 which isn't being reported. There has been a huge increase in the death rate over there compared to average death numbers in years gone by. This isn't being reported.
 
No doubt they are under reporting, but Ireland's reported number of deaths per million is 9 times Poland's

Our testing rate per million is only twice that of Poland.

That's a big gap to explain away with under reporting.
 
farmerjack said:
What does he do only come on television and rattle off a few numbers.
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He's the Chief Medical Advisor for the State.
His job is to garnish medical advice from the likes of WHO and from other countries, analyse this advice and advise the State on how best to react.
I certainly don't think he messed up. He gave advice which was best practice at the time. Best practice changed as did advice change as we learned more about Covid 19.

I found him to be a very respectful man in comparison to health spokespersons in other countries that we see on tv. He always opened with offering his sympathies to those that died. He always appeared calm and gave the impression that he was very solid - just what the country needed as opposed to medical advisors in other countries who said and did stuff just to see what reaction they got from social media
 
muckymanor said:
He's the Chief Medical Advisor for the State.
His job is to garnish medical advice from the likes of WHO and from other countries, analyse this advice and advise the State on how best to react.
I certainly don't think he messed up. He gave advice which was best practice at the time. Best practice changed as did advice change as we learned more about Covid 19.

I found him to be a very respectful man in comparison to health spokespersons in other countries that we see on tv. He always opened with offering his sympathies to those that died. He always appeared calm and gave the impression that he was very solid - just what the country needed as opposed to medical advisors in other countries who said and did stuff just to see what reaction they got from social media
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I think the HSE messed up massively in relation to care homes at the start of this pandemic and as Chief medical advisor was involved in this mistake.
This was an unprecedented crisis and mistake were made everywhere in the world, some of them much worse.
 
gone said:
I think the HSE messed up massively in relation to care homes at the start of this pandemic and as Chief medical advisor was involved in this mistake.
This was an unprecedented crisis and mistake were made everywhere in the world, some of them much worse.
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Absolutely. I agree. There was an unmeasurable shortfall in relation to nursing homes. It appears that nursing homes in every country in the world were left with this shortfall.
 
muckymanor said:
Absolutely. I agree. There was an unmeasurable shortfall in relation to nursing homes. It appears that nursing homes in every country in the world were left with this shortfall.
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The way I look at this crisis and the government-HSEs handling of it is that it was something out of left field, that nobody had ever dealt with before, some of them had studied it in theory, some had read a bit about it, but none of them had any practical experience. Hard to expect that there be no mistakes, but what really annoyed me was the HSE tried to blame the nursing homes for all the deaths, it seems to be a very civil servant mentality, lets look for a scape goat.
 
gone said:
The way I look at this crisis and the government-HSEs handling of it is that it was something out of left field, that nobody had ever dealt with before, some of them had studied it in theory, some had read a bit about it, but none of them had any practical experience. Hard to expect that there be no mistakes, but what really annoyed me was the HSE tried to blame the nursing homes for all the deaths, it seems to be a very civil servant mentality, lets look for a scape goat.
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Having some knowledge of private nursing homes, I have found that that they very much did not want to be governed by the HSE. They resisted hiqa inspections. They insisted that they were private and at a higher standard than the HSE. I have even heard some managers of nursing homes that kept Covid 19 out on radio interviews recently. They were insisting that they didn't need governing or overseeing by the HSE. We can argue that the HSE should have enforced more control of standards within these nursing home. We can also argue that the nursing homes themselves should have done this or their representative body/umbrella should have a standards system in place. At the end of the day, the shortfall was from both sides and the HSE should have been more prepared. But they didn't know what was coming.
 
muckymanor said:
Having some knowledge of private nursing homes, I have found that that they very much did not want to be governed by the HSE. They resisted hiqa inspections. They insisted that they were private and at a higher standard than the HSE. I have even heard some managers of nursing homes that kept Covid 19 out on radio interviews recently. They were insisting that they didn't need governing or overseeing by the HSE. We can argue that the HSE should have enforced more control of standards within these nursing home. We can also argue that the nursing homes themselves should have done this or their representative body/umbrella should have a standards system in place. At the end of the day, the shortfall was from both sides and the HSE should have been more prepared. But they didn't know what was coming.
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Agreed, but the HSE did actively recruit nurses from nursing homes, the HSE did out bid nursing homes for PPE and the HSE did stop testing patients that they were sending to nursing homes. The first 2 may be put down as mistakes they didn't mean to happen, unintended consequences, but the 3rd can't and I believe there will need to be an investigation into who made that decision and why.
 
farmerjack said:
What does he do only come on television and rattle off a few numbers,
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no offence but that comment only shows a lack of insight into such roles.

To go out on national television or radio Day in, day out as required and be able to be an informed And competent representative for all the activities going on is a heavy burden.

additionally something he did exceptionally well was communicate effectively to all demographics of society given that his core competence is technical/scientific in orientation.


If it was so easy why has farming struggled for years and years to get effective representation to reach out and get messages out to broader society, if it is as simple as rattle off a few numbers etc.

From personal experience I have been on the likes of pat kenny show on radio and Matt Cooper - very easy to mess up on these programmes in the moment.
 
farmerjack said:
What does he do only come on television and rattle off a few numbers, he messed on more than one occasion and was told resign from his position but he refused. Then you have varadkar the clown pushing a rushed vaccine and hinting towards forced vaccinations.




https://www.michaelboylan.com/new-page-28
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Are you actually serious? I’m just checking before I go and despair about the IQ of some of the people in this country.

Or perhaps you can enlighten us in terms of your medical & scientific knowledge & qualifications.
 
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