Crossbreeding

Discussion in 'Stock Talk' started by podge 23, Mar 13, 2020.

  1. podge 23

    podge 23 Well-Known Member

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    Just wondering if I was to go crossbreeding I presume it is big holstein milkey cows I should only use Jersey on ..??
     
  2. 6600

    6600 Well-Known Member

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    Everyone else are running the opposite way, they can't be all wrong. The local mart don't want any JEX's as all they do is clog up the place and don't cover the commission.
    I suppose the question you need to ask is what are you trying to achieve?
    Look into joining a discussion group as you will get to see what others are doing.
     
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  3. podge 23

    podge 23 Well-Known Member

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    Well what I am trying to achieve is to bring down the size of the bigger cows and get a more even animal around the 500kg with better fertility etc ..
     
  4. DC95

    DC95 Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't go near a Jersey lots of people now seem to be going away from them. Bull calves are worth nothing and cull cow value is worth nothing either.
    I reckon you'd be better off crossing your holsteins with British friesian you'll have a smaller cow and better fertility.
    Have a few mountbellairdes crossed off holsteins here and they're great animals plenty of milk good solid looking animals too.
    I'm going trying some fleckvieh this year on some of our more holstein type cows which could also be an option for you.
    You could go for Norwegian Red either but I don't have any experience with them.
     
  5. bruceythom

    bruceythom Well-Known Member

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    All Jersey semen used here the last 3 years. Remember;

    It costs €20/week to keep a calf on farm
    Every extra kilo of milk solids is worth approx €4.30
    Every litre of milk you send in costs 4 cent
    Crossbreds eat approx 2kgs less DM each day.
    Animal welfare much higher with crossbreds.

    Don't decide on which breed to use first and then look at the figures. Look at the figures first, then identify the bulls, then decide the breed.
     
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  6. Blackwater boy

    Blackwater boy Moderator

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    What do you mean by animal welfare much higher with crossbreds?
     
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  7. nashmach

    nashmach Well-Known Member

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    Compared to pure Jerseys :scratchhead:

    For the vast majority of farmers, that shouldn't come into it regardless of breed. Or else I'm too naive.
     
  8. bruceythom

    bruceythom Well-Known Member

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    Less intervention needed around the calving and post calving process = less illness in cows and calves. Better feet also.
     
  9. Blackwater boy

    Blackwater boy Moderator

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    That’s a very general comment. That maybe so on your farm but in general I doubt that applies to every single X bred herd.
     
  10. bruceythom

    bruceythom Well-Known Member

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  11. jcb411abuser

    jcb411abuser Well-Known Member

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    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18765631/
    I suppose it depends on the production system but indoors in this study there was no marked difference.
     
  12. podge 23

    podge 23 Well-Known Member

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    Ok so depends on your cows really I suppose. how do I go about crossbreeding so if i dont have all big holstein cows like what would I use on the more British fresian type cow ?
     
  13. DC95

    DC95 Well-Known Member

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    You could try kiwi friesians I dont have any experience in them and don't think they'd suit my system here. Know lads that are using them and from what I hear from them they're light cows with high solids milk yield wouldn't be great and you can forget about your bull calf and cull cow value.
    If you think crossbreeding will suit your system then go for it but just remember that one mistake in breeding can take a lifetime to fix.
     
  14. FIAT 450

    FIAT 450 Well-Known Member

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    Lad what you are trying to do isn't a quick fix solution. All fr sires can achieve what you are asking for but you need to look at the figures when picking bull for ai. Watch your maintenance figure on ai books. I have evened up the herd here along with increasing solids and yeild. I have a bull calf I can sell and a cow worth 800-900e in the mart
     
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  15. podge 23

    podge 23 Well-Known Member

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    What bulls are you using Fiat 450 ?
     
  16. FIAT 450

    FIAT 450 Well-Known Member

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    This what we are using for spring 1584900912701-1213834924.jpg
     
  17. bruceythom

    bruceythom Well-Known Member

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    @podge 23, our base herd is a small British/Holstein Friesan. Milking my first batch of crossbreds this Spring now. Absolutely no regrets. If you are considering the bull calf value with any dairy breed, you're head is in the wrong place, 10 extra kilos of solids with less milk volume will thwart any of those considerations. Yes, watch the size of the bulls, the maintenance figure will show you this, keep it between 0 and 30 euros.
    An extra €300 in the mart for Friesan cows in 6 years time (a long time to wait) is €50/lactation. A kilo of solids is worth approx €4.50. Every litre of milk you send in costs you approx 4 cent, so less milk with more solids every lactation wouldn't be long making sense. We are aiming our herd for 520kgs delivered (not the willy waving milk recording which we are already achieving!) with a cow that weighs less and keeping the concentrates under 750kgs. We are on a wet farm and early turnout hampers this, so the animal weight is a big factor.
     
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  18. DC95

    DC95 Well-Known Member

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    Completely agree with you @FIAT 450. Have been doing it here for the last number of years and are slowly but sure getting a more fertile cow with higher yields and have done over 500kg solids the last 2 years now. It suits our system down to the ground the bull calves are worth something and your cow is worth something as a cull.
    In my own opinion it's not right breeding an animal that's only fit for milking and having a bull calf that's worth nothing. I'm not saying its happening on every crossbred farm but I have heard stories of crossbred bull calves being slaughtered for kebab meat and stories of bull calves being shot at birth. Maybe I'm wrong but I couldn't bear to do anything like that to my bull calves. Any calf that's born on the farm here regardless of it's a bull or heifer receives the same amount of care and attention and I believe this should be the same on every farm.
    I'm not against crossbreeding each to their own and everyone has their own system but I just think a small bit more emphasis needs to be placed on the beef traits on all dairy animals at the end of the day there going to end up as beef one day.
     
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  19. jcb411abuser

    jcb411abuser Well-Known Member

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    What could you save in cartage by breeding higher solids? 6000 litres cost 240euro to cart at 4c/ltr. Could you cut volume by 20% even if you did it 50euro which is easily made up with the calf.
    Jex is worth zero, fr is about 50euro here. Fleckvieh is 250 to 300. 2kg dm of grass silage is 36c so you'll save 108 euro per 300day lactation, plus 50 for the decrease in volume. You're up 160euro a cow with the jex
    But you're up 250 - 300 with the fleckvieh.
     
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  20. bruceythom

    bruceythom Well-Known Member

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    Friesan bull calves worth €37 euro @ 10 days of age on average this Spring. 50% chance of getting a bull calf so that's €18.50. Or 4kgs of milk solids.
     
  21. bruceythom

    bruceythom Well-Known Member

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  22. DC95

    DC95 Well-Known Member

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    I know of one farm where it happened last year. I'm not going to name any names as that's not fair on anyone and have heard stories from other farmers of similar. As I said it's not happening on every crossbred farm and I'm not against crossbreeding but if word of this got out into the public it would ruin the dairy industry.
     
  23. bruceythom

    bruceythom Well-Known Member

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    Well you put it on a public forum. You can DM me the details. If a farmer is shooting animals, I want to know who he is. I've heard these claims before, but they've all transpired to be pub talk that will do fierce damage to our reputation. So I'm going to call it.
     
  24. DC95

    DC95 Well-Known Member

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    Look I know myself it happened I don't need to give you a name it's not any of your business who the farmer was and I'm not going to go naming names and ruining someone's reputation.
    This is a forum on crossbreeding and let's keep it about that.
     
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  25. bruceythom

    bruceythom Well-Known Member

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    Well if you want to keep the conversation about crossbreeding, then don't be making unsubstantiated claims of farmers shooting calves, and how that's going to damage our reputation. That's what they call an oxymoron.

    Some farmers are vehemently opposed to cross breeding and I respect their choice. But undermining the industry by making flippant claims of animal abuse when we have one of the best reputations for calf care in the world that we should all be taking a lot of pride in is damn irresponsible. So either report this "farmer" or accept that cross breeding has merits for some farmers and that's their choice.
     

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