Farm Business Plan

That's great stuff @scoffcruddle , just shows what can be achieved by starting young with a good head and hard work does. A lot of people think the bank is the first place to go and then spend the money on unproductive things. Over here it could be argued it is harder to get going, there's no FBT's or option to purchase and rents are pretty uneconomic due to holdings being small but you have to play with the dice you're handed.
 
That's great stuff @scoffcruddle , just shows what can be achieved by starting young with a good head and hard work does. A lot of people think the bank is the first place to go and then spend the money on unproductive things. Over here it could be argued it is harder to get going, there's no FBT's or option to purchase and rents are pretty uneconomic due to holdings being small but you have to play with the dice you're handed.

I’d have got a farm somewhere,my dad was on a fbt and if anything had have happened to him I’d have been out,was a great feeling walking out and you’ve just bought your hard work back.

What’s going to be the future in Ireland?
Family farms handed down?

Also I should have said despite borrowing over a £1m I was never asked for a business plan.
 
We bought 8acres and a wrecked bungalow in Jan 96,sold an acre and the bungalow with planning for a new house for double in 2001.

Bought everything I could afford for dairying off my dad in 2002 ,this included everything down to the kick bar in the parlour and all his buildings on his tenanted farm,he sold his cows and I started with 17 milking,my biggest ingoing was milk quota (£100k:ohmy:)
I bought various cows,mostly cheap end cows with faults,fed them well and if anything went wrong I culled them.

Along the way of farming under my dads tenancy I built new cubicles,slurry lagoon,silage clamps plus a fresh parlour,never had any professional on the farm did all wiring fabrication building either myself or with a brother or my brother in -law.

By 2013 we were milking 170 cows with followers had bought a house in the village,had a couple of new tractors and own silage gear,umbilical set up etc.. when the estate decided to sell the farm,despite not being the tenant We got the chance to buy 164 acres we rented off them,in a good position with no over draft and decent stock levels we jumped at the chance,it took 360 days for the estate to finally agree terms and we paid 80% of market value for it in the end.

In late 14/15 I built a new parlour (32/64 )with help of a good fabricator and a lad doing ground work,we then bought 25 acres off next door,ending up paying £11k /acre for it,currently on with buying another 9 acres off neighbour.

Now milking 270 and last month got cows in the last part of my 280 cow cubicle building,have 420 cow cubicles now (only 42 are original) but have decided to go flying herd as we lost some land we rented in the spring,currently only rent 40 acres and tidy a bit of grass up on my dads farm.

In the early days my wife worked as a postie and milked at night so I could feed up,after about five years of this and ending up giving the tax man her wage she gave up and worked full time on the farm,she is an excellent stockman and when everything is going wrong you can rely on her to get the milk in the tank,she’s great to work with and we never fall out .

So in short property bought our 1st land and were still paying for the rest,we've always been good savers and both like a deal,even if the milk price is good we’ll still push and push for a deal it’s what makes us tick.:yes:




Having worked elsewhere in the past I’d struggle going back to commuting,everywhere is so busy now.
great story scoff and a lesson for us all, if you want something bad enough you,ll find a way and it sounds like the best deal you did was marrying the bosswoman :thumbup:
 
I’d have got a farm somewhere,my dad was on a fbt and if anything had have happened to him I’d have been out,was a great feeling walking out and you’ve just bought your hard work back.

What’s going to be the future in Ireland?
Family farms handed down?

Also I should have said despite borrowing over a £1m I was never asked for a business plan.
Nor I tbh, what a bank wants to see is repayment capacity and a solid record, both in your previous accounts and previous dealings with them. Banks don't lend for ventures, they are into sure things, all the risk is on the borrower.
I really don't know what is going to happen, the lack of profit over and above living expenses is grinding down farms here. The tax system militates against investment here too, we don't have the AIA's that you have, buildings/machinery are written off over 7/8 years. Farmers are getting older and the barriers to entry for young farmers are huge.
Making the SFP an asset of the landowner was a grave mistake, also if you retire and rent your land and entitlements to a third party the rent is exempt from tax whereas if you gave it to your child any income or rent is fully taxed. Especially this year I see a lot of men kind of give up and take their foot off the pedal. A lot of them started from small beginnings and built up a decent business but once a child has moved on with their life they are not going back farming once they are over 30 and with commitments of their own.
 
I’d have got a farm somewhere,my dad was on a fbt and if anything had have happened to him I’d have been out,was a great feeling walking out and you’ve just bought your hard work back.

What’s going to be the future in Ireland?
Family farms handed down?

Also I should have said despite borrowing over a £1m I was never asked for a business plan.
For the past couple of generations at least over here it has been impossible to start farming from scratch and build yourself up to a substantial owned enterprise. Either you make your money in an alternative industry and then invest in land or you/your partner inherit a farm (or farms). The holdings that come up for leasing are generally too small to be a viable stand-alone unit (particularly at the prices they are making) and ten years would be considered long-term. Hence many members would find the likes of your story fascinating as it just doesn't happen over here.
 
For the past couple of generations at least over here it has been impossible to start farming from scratch and build yourself up to a substantial owned enterprise. Either you make your money in an alternative industry and then invest in land or you/your partner inherit a farm (or farms). The holdings that come up for leasing are generally too small to be a viable stand-alone unit (particularly at the prices they are making) and ten years would be considered long-term. Hence many members would find the likes of your story fascinating as it just doesn't happen over here.

Plus a big factor is the level of rent being demanded by landowners.
€200 was standard enough for a good while.
That has gone out the window since the huge push in dairying.
A piece of land about.a mile from here , that has been let year to year for 20 odd years. , was put on a 10 year lease this year , to a new tenant , at €324 per acre . Not much profit left for your hard work at that rent .
 
Plus a big factor is the level of rent being demanded by landowners.
€200 was standard enough for a good while.
That has gone out the window since the huge push in dairying.
A piece of land about.a mile from here , that has been let year to year for 20 odd years. , was put on a 10 year lease this year , to a new tenant , at €324 per acre . Not much profit left for your hard work at that rent .

Might be easy rent land next year.

Lads need to learn to use calculators or a biro
 
I don't think farmers appreciate the struggle that commuting, dealing with the public, with staff /bosses deadlines ect can be, The grass often looks greener.
Its a tough commute here, i'd say its a good 30 yards to walk and I've been late many a time!! Then all day working for farmers for next to nothing, deadlines..................It's always going to rain! Other than that it's a doddle...................:sweat:
 
Plus a big factor is the level of rent being demanded by landowners.
€200 was standard enough for a good while.
That has gone out the window since the huge push in dairying.
A piece of land about.a mile from here , that has been let year to year for 20 odd years. , was put on a 10 year lease this year , to a new tenant , at €324 per acre . Not much profit left for your hard work at that rent .
Ya €300 an acre plus entitlements is what is being asked now as if the money was dropping out of the sky. No says I.
 
For the past couple of generations at least over here it has been impossible to start farming from scratch and build yourself up to a substantial owned enterprise. Either you make your money in an alternative industry and then invest in land or you/your partner inherit a farm (or farms). The holdings that come up for leasing are generally too small to be a viable stand-alone unit (particularly at the prices they are making) and ten years would be considered long-term. Hence many members would find the likes of your story fascinating as it just doesn't happen over here.
It doesn’t happen here.

You could say I made my money in an alternative industry,buying my 1st house at 18 and driving a £400 car was the start,I’d the oldest car around.

When I bought my 1st house I remember lads in the village saying houses were to dear for them,these were lads in their late 20s who’d spent the last 15 years in the pub every night,I’d saved up £5k and had a deposit on a £50k house by the time I was 18,I can’t think of a single 18 year old buying a house nowadays,most seem to struggle buying a car but will have a phone that’s the price of a car.
 
Nor I tbh, what a bank wants to see is repayment capacity and a solid record, both in your previous accounts and previous dealings with them. Banks don't lend for ventures, they are into sure things, all the risk is on the borrower.
I really don't know what is going to happen, the lack of profit over and above living expenses is grinding down farms here. The tax system militates against investment here too, we don't have the AIA's that you have, buildings/machinery are written off over 7/8 years. Farmers are getting older and the barriers to entry for young farmers are huge.
Making the SFP an asset of the landowner was a grave mistake, also if you retire and rent your land and entitlements to a third party the rent is exempt from tax whereas if you gave it to your child any income or rent is fully taxed. Especially this year I see a lot of men kind of give up and take their foot off the pedal. A lot of them started from small beginnings and built up a decent business but once a child has moved on with their life they are not going back farming once they are over 30 and with commitments of their own.

It's sad really isn't it that were in an industry that very few people can see much of a future in.
 
I haven’t been watching prices but two separate people have told me that agricultural land prices are slipping back recently?
 
Also I should have said despite borrowing over a £1m I was never asked for a business plan.

Ditto, and I’d be in fairly deep. Ebidta and repayment history are all that count.

Irish banks are zombiefied. Gouging interest rates, tax free status etc...sadly Ireland is a bankocracy with a banking system that is unfit for purpose.
That’s the reason the price of Irish Ag land is falling or at best stagnant.
 
Never a truer word!
Likewise Milk quota should never have been made a private asset. It absolutely skewed the market/financials in favor of dairy farmers.

I did profit handsomely from both though!

I had 1.7m litres of quota at one stage,unfortunately it was in the later years when it wasn’t worth much.:tdown:

I’m not bitter,you just get on with the job.
 
Yes but won't you get hammered on the interest rate :scratchhead:, cashflow wise it would be better timing I agree.

@SHS there were a few on Teagasc website, cost planner or something like that but to be honest if you are handy with Excel You'd be as well building your own and if the bank quiz your numbers you can stand over them then :yes:
We saved 20k by going with milk flex over the bank and that was on interest on repayments. Cash flow is the only thing I'd say would catch you as repayments are high as has to be paid in 7 years. If you can do it it a no-brainer and you also don't repay in the winter months
 
We saved 20k by going with milk flex over the bank and that was on interest on repayments. Cash flow is the only thing I'd say would catch you as repayments are high as has to be paid in 7 years. If you can do it it a no-brainer and you also don't repay in the winter months

We're you comparing with another 7 year term or would the alternative have been longer. If it was longer it would have obviously meant more interest.
 
We're you comparing with another 7 year term or would the alternative have been longer. If it was longer it would have obviously meant more interest.
Ya it was longer. That why I say you will save on the interest but the repayment are heavy going but if I can save that amount and paid off earlier think it worth it. Plus there are mechanisms in place if milk price drops or if you went down with tb you can avail of. Plus if I went with the bank Id have had to pay for two solicitor and a auctioneer as they wanted land to go against the money.
 
We bought 8acres and a wrecked bungalow in Jan 96,sold an acre and the bungalow with planning for a new house for double in 2001.

Bought everything I could afford for dairying off my dad in 2002 ,this included everything down to the kick bar in the parlour and all his buildings on his tenanted farm,he sold his cows and I started with 17 milking,my biggest ingoing was milk quota (£100k:ohmy:)
I bought various cows,mostly cheap end cows with faults,fed them well and if anything went wrong I culled them.

Along the way of farming under my dads tenancy I built new cubicles,slurry lagoon,silage clamps plus a fresh parlour,never had any professional on the farm did all wiring fabrication building either myself or with a brother or my brother in -law.

By 2013 we were milking 170 cows with followers had bought a house in the village,had a couple of new tractors and own silage gear,umbilical set up etc.. when the estate decided to sell the farm,despite not being the tenant We got the chance to buy 164 acres we rented off them,in a good position with no over draft and decent stock levels we jumped at the chance,it took 360 days for the estate to finally agree terms and we paid 80% of market value for it in the end.

In late 14/15 I built a new parlour (32/64 )with help of a good fabricator and a lad doing ground work,we then bought 25 acres off next door,ending up paying £11k /acre for it,currently on with buying another 9 acres off neighbour.

Now milking 270 and last month got cows in the last part of my 280 cow cubicle building,have 420 cow cubicles now (only 42 are original) but have decided to go flying herd as we lost some land we rented in the spring,currently only rent 40 acres and tidy a bit of grass up on my dads farm.

In the early days my wife worked as a postie and milked at night so I could feed up,after about five years of this and ending up giving the tax man her wage she gave up and worked full time on the farm,she is an excellent stockman and when everything is going wrong you can rely on her to get the milk in the tank,she’s great to work with and we never fall out .

So in short property bought our 1st land and were still paying for the rest,we've always been good savers and both like a deal,even if the milk price is good we’ll still push and push for a deal it’s what makes us tick.:yes:




Having worked elsewhere in the past I’d struggle going back to commuting,everywhere is so busy now.
Great story scoff. I'd pieced bits of it together from other threads but nice to hear the full summary.
Behind every great man is a great woman definitely rings true in your case. :thumbup:
 
Folks,

Would anyone have a copy of a typical 'Farm Business Plan' that could be amended, preferably for a sheep enterprise , I need to get one together for a particular financial institution as part of a loan application.


Thanks I advance
SHS
I knocked a business plan together a couple years ago for a land loan application. It was based on setting up on my own with nothing other than 15 suckler cows. The loan was approved anyway though I'm fairly sure it was mainly down to me having a full-time income off farm. I can dig it out if you think it would be any help to you
 
Ya it was longer. That why I say you will save on the interest but the repayment are heavy going but if I can save that amount and paid off earlier think it worth it. Plus there are mechanisms in place if milk price drops or if you went down with tb you can avail of. Plus if I went with the bank Id have had to pay for two solicitor and a auctioneer as they wanted land to go against the money.
And arrangement fees with the bank, around €500 per loan agreement.
 
And arrangement fees with the bank, around €500 per loan agreement.
Plus paying there solicitor that hasn't a clue about farming. I think it would have nearly cost us 4k to get the money from them. We went with them at the start as the repayment weren't as steep, but they arsed about for so long I got fed up and rang them and told them to keep it. Had the few Bob from milk flex ina week
 
I knocked a business plan together a couple years ago for a land loan application. It was based on setting up on my own with nothing other than 15 suckler cows. The loan was approved anyway though I'm fairly sure it was mainly down to me having a full-time income off farm. I can dig it out if you think it would be any help to you
Its the off farm income that will be making the business plan look good at my end also!
 
Yes but won't you get hammered on the interest rate :scratchhead:, cashflow wise it would be better timing I agree.

@SHS there were a few on Teagasc website, cost planner or something like that but to be honest if you are handy with Excel You'd be as well building your own and if the bank quiz your numbers you can stand over them then :yes:

Took a look at the teagasc site, they have a few examples for sure, they have most
 
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