bruceythom
Well-Known Member
Have you looked in to agro-forestry @hopeful_farmer ?
TMKF
Well-Known Member
Why not? Put up a fence.
Not seeing why you couldnt do that and lease out some
Look at lease and it'll look different.
I am and I dont deny it. Destroying some of the iconic beautiful landscape and crushing out species associated with extensive grassland (and here is damn near the last place that exists) is not sustainable or environmentally friendly.
Young people are being forced to leave cos they cant get enough land to farm leading to rural abandonment and the end of rural society in those areas
I dont see anything wrong with Ireland having a lower percentage in a group that includes Sweden or Finland. Plenty of places would kill for our grass growing climate
(Also the figures are wrong: Ireland is very close to the EU average when "Linear woodland", also known as hedgerows, are taken into account)
Then why is the Amazon being cut down? If not for beef grazing, world over the amount of food producing land is decreasing and crushing out real natural habitat
No farmer is gonna be rolling in it, but most will offer a decent price for good land.
The price of land in the west is mostly cos of young people forced off the land cos they couldnt get enough to be viable.
Mayo is one of fastest growing dairy region in Ireland
nashmach
Well-Known Member
The latest property price survey certainly wasn't showing a fall off in land prices in the West from what I recall, Midwest maybe. From memory it was relatively stable.
And another thing, a few days ago, you were on about expanding the suckler herd more and retaining heifers,now you are doing a complete U turn and selling them off???? Why (to my mind), the sudden change!!
JOHNNY BOY
Well-Known Member
Thank you [MENTION=2641]TMKF[/MENTION] all good points and answers.
I think sadly i may add if someone is of the mindset to plant their land they rarely will change their mind. I personally think its a crying shame to see good land planted when you see what some people ( myself included) are trying too make good land out off.
My personal opinion would be rent the part you are thinking of planting and farm the rest yourself at least something decent to leave to your successors.
If you are thinking of going down the route of a day job plus beef stock, it will take relatively very little extra time to look after two times the stock you had planned on keeping if you keep all of your land and forget about planting. Their will be twice the income from twice the stock if you own all the land plus you still get all your present payements.
As for future are you 100%sure that forestry will pay out all that it's supposed too.
Any change in ANC payements could leave you well down on your income as you would only have half the area to claim on.
There is a lot of forestry in Mayo gone well beyond it's maturity date at present. What the farmers are getting offered is only pennies compared to what they were told they would receieve when tgey planted the ground. Remember how long will it take for the forestry payements to be swallowed up by the INSURANCE premiums. You still have to pay your insurance premiums after the grants expire till you clear the forest.
Some plantatio contracts the farmer is tied to replanting the said ground again at his own expense
bruceythom
Well-Known Member
We're on marginal land here, as are some of my neighbours. Only we're trying to farm as intensively as our land will let I'd give agro-forestry a serious consideration. It'd really suit some of my social farmer payment neighbours who are not interested in productivity. It'd really compliment the sticky wet ground.
There's a field between Portlaoise and Stradbally, not far from the site of the ploughing match, the finest of ground I might add albeit having a good fall on it, manageable nonetheless. I was passing by it a few year ago and I couldn't understand why it looked like it got mole ploughed as I allowed it wasn't the sort of ground would need it. Well the scars I was looking at were scars for planting trees in. Every time I pass by it my stomach feels sick at the thoughts of me slopping away on marginal land when land twice it's value is planted. Imagine if the land owner had sold that land and bought half a mountain and planted that instead.
I'm not against planting as it's a great way of getting value from land where it wouldn't be possible otherwise and creates a great income for the country. It would be great to see more native hardwoods planted though as pines do little to enhance the environment.
My take on it is, unless it can't be farmed, don't cover it in trees.
There's a field between Portlaoise and Stradbally, not far from the site of the ploughing match, the finest of ground I might add albeit having a good fall on it, manageable nonetheless. I was passing by it a few year ago and I couldn't understand why it looked like it got mole ploughed as I allowed it wasn't the sort of ground would need it. Well the scars I was looking at were scars for planting trees in. Every time I pass by it my stomach feels sick at the thoughts of me slopping away on marginal land when land twice it's value is planted. Imagine if the land owner had sold that land and bought half a mountain and planted that instead.
I'm not against planting as it's a great way of getting value from land where it wouldn't be possible otherwise and creates a great income for the country. It would be great to see more native hardwoods planted though as pines do little to enhance the environment.
My take on it is, unless it can't be farmed, don't cover it in trees.
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Blackwater boy
Moderator
brucey-what is with the thumbnail picture at the bottom, i doubt you ment to upload that...
josh
Moderator/IT Guy
I would be of the same opinion as bruceythom, and I like having some trees around the place.
I know of one tillage farmer on the best of ground who has planted some forestry to square up fields where it might be sloping down a far bit and not worth the hassle of working it otherwise.
I've planted a few hundred oak and ash seeds as an experiment to see how they go just recently, they look very well on a lane and great for shelter as well as firewood.
I know of one tillage farmer on the best of ground who has planted some forestry to square up fields where it might be sloping down a far bit and not worth the hassle of working it otherwise.
I've planted a few hundred oak and ash seeds as an experiment to see how they go just recently, they look very well on a lane and great for shelter as well as firewood.
bruceythom
Well-Known Member
JohnBoy
Well-Known Member
Obviously not a popular positon but given I'm already an absentee landlord armchair farmer i'm not too botherd
.
We have 9 of our 60 acres planted. it's a field at the bottom of the farm, has drains on 4 sides and one down the middle. My late father in law was a progressive dairy farmer and a great grass manager (he was strip grazing paddocks 30 years ago) but in a good year it was a field that wasn't fit for much more than grazing calves.
If we were ever plannning on farming the place to the nth degree then maybe we wouldnt have planted it, but until that day would come all we would have been doing was topping rushes and we'd still only end up with a field for calves in a good year.
But it's unlikely to happen that we'll ever depend on the farm to keep us fed so we took the decision to plant that field with an ash, alder and beech mix. Ash, like any other crop has become susceptible to a disease so it's future looks grim.
Our long term plan would be to claim our grant and when the grant runs out we will thin , probably primarily for firewood, but also with a view to clearing some of the ground. 20 years of forestry will have boosted the soil's organic content significantly. 20 years of rooting should improve drainage and the remaining trees should soak a share of the excess water that the organic matter and root drainage dont deal with, and we'll be back to grazing calves on it again. just between trees.
I wouldnt be a fan of planting good ground personally (many would probably call what we planted good, but it's all relative) but firmly believe that any man should be entitled to do whatever he wishes with his own property. if someone wants to grow barley, grass, rushes or trees it's his land to do with as he pleases.
[MENTION=6122]hopefull_farmer[/MENTION] your case is one I wouldnt plant in at all. it's a poor reason to do it in my opinion.
A bit of fencing will divide your land in two if you can find a suitable tenant, tax free rental there too and you could do it for the same 20 year period as the forest grant, you'd have lads taking the arm off you.
If you dont want to rent (and I can understand why you might not) you could also explore something like a tillage share farming agreement, or heifer rearing. Simplify your enterprise but still keep control of your land.
The downside to forestry is the inability to do much else with the land after clearfelling.
.We have 9 of our 60 acres planted. it's a field at the bottom of the farm, has drains on 4 sides and one down the middle. My late father in law was a progressive dairy farmer and a great grass manager (he was strip grazing paddocks 30 years ago) but in a good year it was a field that wasn't fit for much more than grazing calves.
If we were ever plannning on farming the place to the nth degree then maybe we wouldnt have planted it, but until that day would come all we would have been doing was topping rushes and we'd still only end up with a field for calves in a good year.
But it's unlikely to happen that we'll ever depend on the farm to keep us fed so we took the decision to plant that field with an ash, alder and beech mix. Ash, like any other crop has become susceptible to a disease so it's future looks grim.
Our long term plan would be to claim our grant and when the grant runs out we will thin , probably primarily for firewood, but also with a view to clearing some of the ground. 20 years of forestry will have boosted the soil's organic content significantly. 20 years of rooting should improve drainage and the remaining trees should soak a share of the excess water that the organic matter and root drainage dont deal with, and we'll be back to grazing calves on it again. just between trees.
I wouldnt be a fan of planting good ground personally (many would probably call what we planted good, but it's all relative) but firmly believe that any man should be entitled to do whatever he wishes with his own property. if someone wants to grow barley, grass, rushes or trees it's his land to do with as he pleases.
[MENTION=6122]hopefull_farmer[/MENTION] your case is one I wouldnt plant in at all. it's a poor reason to do it in my opinion.
A bit of fencing will divide your land in two if you can find a suitable tenant, tax free rental there too and you could do it for the same 20 year period as the forest grant, you'd have lads taking the arm off you.
If you dont want to rent (and I can understand why you might not) you could also explore something like a tillage share farming agreement, or heifer rearing. Simplify your enterprise but still keep control of your land.
The downside to forestry is the inability to do much else with the land after clearfelling.
bruceythom
Well-Known Member
Oh god yea! [emoji12]Could have been worse
Arthur
Well-Known Member
I thought it was his idea of armchair farmers:D
TMKF
Well-Known Member
I was looking into agro-forestry before. And I was surprised that to discover most farms in Ireland actually qualify as it, because of the amount of hedgerows relative to the area of grassland
Tillage down the east coast doesnt
TMKF
Well-Known Member
I've been replanting some hedgerows with lines of trees here as well. Noticed some good benefits. Soil temp cross to hedges is generally higher so grass gets going there first. Between that and shelter for the cattle and draining wet spots dont see a reason not to have good well maintained hedges
General attitude in the past that anything under hedges was wasted so lots of hedges removed or let decline into very little use.
I've been removing gorse and replanting blackthorn and black alder in a good few hedges and putting up new hedges around outer borders to stop any contact between my stock and neighbours
nashmach
Well-Known Member
Your post resonates with me at the moment Bruce.
Looking at cleaning up/draining a block of land here at the moment. It will be a sizeable enough cost yet next door to it is planted.
Only a few years back it was cleaned up and 75% of it was giving a good crop of SB.
Sickening to see really but nothing can be done.
A drainage contractor that saw it here wasn't best pleased as it makes it difficult to get water away too after a number of years.
Like yourself and the neighbours this will be like chalk and cheese too!
SMID
Well-Known Member
Couldnt agree more @nashmash theres a place not far away we used to combine 125 acres every year whole farm (220 acres) in trees .How many generations worked to make that farm and one man turned it back 400years.
Forestry will not be going away .
The Government is hoping that a massive forestry programme will be taken into account as helping to reduce carbon emissions. It plans to plant new forest covering 43,000 hectares by 2020.
Irish Independent
http://www.independent.ie/irish-new...ctor-on-emissions-warns-coveney-34214953.html
The Government is hoping that a massive forestry programme will be taken into account as helping to reduce carbon emissions. It plans to plant new forest covering 43,000 hectares by 2020.
Irish Independent
http://www.independent.ie/irish-new...ctor-on-emissions-warns-coveney-34214953.html
H
hopefull_farmer
Guest
is there a minimum area you can plant , i have a two acre paddock which is very marginal and very unproductive , cattle never get much use out of it
sort of thinking i might plant a small amount first , this particular paddock would be no loss to the farm at all
sort of thinking i might plant a small amount first , this particular paddock would be no loss to the farm at all
H
hopefull_farmer
Guest
met with the forrestry people the other day and so ive decided im just going to plant a poor field for now , its only three acres but has never been any use for growing grass , decided to plant it in oak , should happen in the spring