Ignorance or cruelty

[Guest]

What do you think, when does ignorance become a case of cruelty, either ignorance of methods of doing things, say such as foot trimming ewes and you see someone doing who make a hash of it, causing more pain.
Or neglect of a foot problem totally.
Someone out of their depth and who resorts to violence against an animal.
Most of us will have come across something where you just have to intervene, or do you walk away, and hope someone else says something.
Do you try to educate the person a correct way.

 

[Larry David]

I will always say something, the animals can’t. It will only reflect poorly on all farmers if they are caught, last thing we need is more bad PR. Look at the Duck video lately. Cruelty is cruelty, ignorance has nothing to do with it, if you cant tell your hurting an animal, you should be no where near animals.

My experiences have been not ag related, I had to report a neighbour for not looking after his 2 ponies, I offered to look after them twice but he could see nothing wrong, ponies were taken from him.

 

[Guest]

I think it is a sad state when there arnt more people who will stick their neck out and say something.

 

[Sussex Martin]

Yes I would have to say something.

 

[Deereone]

At college we were taught (amongst other things) to castrate, tail dock, tooth clip and inject with iron; new born pigs, all without anaesthetics. That was what you did.
Was that ignorant? was that cruel? is it still done this way?

 

[jcb411abuser]

It's all well and good going on about cruelty but sometimes snooping neighbours go a bit too far, we had a cow that calved and the calve was stillborn, we were at other work at the time and left it there to deal with later, next thing the gardai come to the house looking for the owner of the dead calf, turns out a neighbour was walking up the road beside the field and saw the dead calf and it upset her, so she then decided to report us to the gardai, what a bunch of nonsense like, we ended up leaving it there for the knacker man to lift on his way up past was handier like.

 

[Larry David]

It's all well and good going on about cruelty but sometimes snooping neighbours go a bit too far, we had a cow that calved and the calve was stillborn, we were at other work at the time and left it there to deal with later, next thing the gardai come to the house looking for the owner of the dead calf, turns out a neighbour was walking up the road beside the field and saw the dead calf and it upset her, so she then decided to report us to the gardai, what a bunch of nonsense like, we ended up leaving it there for the knacker man to lift on his way up past was handier like.

I know alot of neighbours are up to no good but what do you expect leaving a dead calf out in view of the public, if I saw a dead animal I would contact the owner, your neighbour properly didn’t know the farmer.

 

[MasseyMan]

It's all well and good going on about cruelty but sometimes snooping neighbours go a bit too far, we had a cow that calved and the calve was stillborn, we were at other work at the time and left it there to deal with later, next thing the gardai come to the house looking for the owner of the dead calf, turns out a neighbour was walking up the road beside the field and saw the dead calf and it upset her, so she then decided to report us to the gardai, what a bunch of nonsense like, we ended up leaving it there for the knacker man to lift on his way up past was handier like.

Probably wouldn't have killed you to move it out of view and cover it with something.

 

[jcb411abuser]

I know alot of neighbours are up to no good but what do you expect leaving a dead calf out in view of the public, if I saw a dead animal I would contact the owner, your neighbour properly didn’t know the farmer.

she knew us she only lives down the bloody road, it's our land, it was our calf, as i say we were at other work, it's getting to much, other people demanding farmers run their business a certain way, would like to see the face on anyone else if you told them how they should be running their business. i think people are to used to animals being pets, and they freak at death, death is part of life and if someone is upset by it then that is up to them to deal with it imo, there is cruelty and then there is just life.

 

[Larry David]

she knew us she only lives down the bloody road, it's our land, it was our calf, as i say we were at other work, it's getting to much, other people demanding farmers run their business a certain way, would like to see the face on anyone else if you told them how they should be running their business. i think people are to used to animals being pets, and they freak at death, death is part of life and if someone is upset by it then that is up to them to deal with it imo, there is cruelty and then there is just life.

Cruelty is different to the normal circle of life and most people know that, I know all about nosey neighbours but that is the way it is now, they’re right and the farmer doesn’t know anything. At the end of the day, you did nothing wrong

 

[Guest]

Whilst I agree that it was taking it a bit far by phoning the gardai, I think as Massey said, why couldnt you have covered it:001_unsure:

We are surrounded on one side by houses, and rather than think of them as "nosey neighbours" I always thank them for contacting me, even for the dead animal that is usually asleep. I would rather go out on a false alarm 20 times, than miss something that is genuine. It also has the effect of them appreciating where their Sunday roast comes from.

 

[jcb411abuser]

Whilst I agree that it was taking it a bit far by phoning the gardai, I think as Massey said, why couldnt you have covered it:001_unsure:

We are surrounded on one side by houses, and rather than think of them as "nosey neighbours" I always thank them for contacting me, even for the dead animal that is usually asleep. I would rather go out on a false alarm 20 times, than miss something that is genuine. It also has the effect of them appreciating where their Sunday roast comes from.

I don't mind the ones who contact you and are trying to be helpful, of course we would welcome that and be very grateful, i have a problem with the ones who are trying to get you into bother!! why phone the gardai if you were only trying to inform the farmer of the dead animal? as i say i have no problem with people who contact us if such an incident occurred, it's these people who think that we as farmers are here just to keep the country side nice looking for when they decide they want to take a walk, and then complain when they see something they don't like, i'm here to make money, farming is a business, i'm not here to play caretaker of the country side.

 

[Big Vern]

It's all well and good going on about cruelty but sometimes snooping neighbours go a bit too far, we had a cow that calved and the calve was stillborn, we were at other work at the time and left it there to deal with later, next thing the gardai come to the house looking for the owner of the dead calf, turns out a neighbour was walking up the road beside the field and saw the dead calf and it upset her, so she then decided to report us to the gardai, what a bunch of nonsense like, we ended up leaving it there for the knacker man to lift on his way up past was handier like.

JCB not trying to tell you how to run your yard, if you knew said calf was still born removing it no matter how busy you where have saved you a lot of out side aggro and i would of thought the potential for infection from the corpse might have been an issue.
Going back to the OP ignorance shouldnt be used as an excuse for being cruel.. if i thought for instance the sheep on turnips at our place looked like shitty death all limping and hanging with crap i would tell the owner when he came to look at them.
A very close neighbour to us works fo rthe RSPCA and will quite often ask the boss or one of us a question relating to "farm animals" to give him a perspective on a potential problem he or his blokes may be dealing with, being able to see happy beef cattle lying in loose housing on clean straw and 1 0r 2 lying in shite in the yard has made him realise for instance that animals will make up there own mind

 

[Guest]

I don't mind the ones who contact you and are trying to be helpful, of course we would welcome that and be very grateful, i have a problem with the ones who are trying to get you into bother!! why phone the gardai if you were only trying to inform the farmer of the dead animal? as i say i have no problem with people who contact us if such an incident occurred, it's these people who think that we as farmers are here just to keep the country side nice looking for when they decide they want to take a walk, and then complain when they see something they don't like, i'm here to make money, farming is a business, i'm not here to play caretaker of the country side.

But do you not think that instances like this give other farmers a bad press? I wouldnt have been to happy either, if it had been my neighbour, I would have told you about it first, did you not ask them why they reported it to the Gardai and not yourselves:001_unsure:
I certainly wouldnt have left an animal in a place that all could see.
I also think we are all here to be caretakers of the countryside, I am proud of my little bit, and take pride in what I do.

 

[turnipkicker]

Yep I have to agree, one thing leaving deadstock handy for the knackerman, but another to leave it where all and sundry can see it. Not a good advert for livestock farming and more ammo for the vegetarian/vegan/anti-farming lobby.

 

[jcb411abuser]

Yep I have to agree, one thing leaving deadstock handy for the knackerman, but another to leave it where all and sundry can see it. Not a good advert for livestock farming and more ammo for the vegetarian/vegan/anti-farming lobby.

it's all irrelevant in my opinion, the animal was dead, no matter where you put it it is still dead, what is the difference seeing it there or behind a wall, none, it didn't die because of any sort of mistreatment so i really don't see the problem? the public should realise that with that many animals some are going to die, and as long as they didn't die from any mistreatment, where they are when they are dead is irrelevant.

 

[Guest]

What I dont understand is if you knew it was still born, then why not just shift it there and then, end of:001_unsure:

And if more folk treat the general public with that disdain its no wonder the anti lobby are given so much ammunition.

 

[jcb411abuser]

What I dont understand is if you knew it was still born, then why not just shift it there and then, end of:001_unsure:

And if more folk treat the general public with that disdain its no wonder the anti lobby are given so much ammunition.

because it was handy for the knackerman to lift it down by the road, and not have to come up to the yard. i just don't think we are going to see eye to eye on this so i'm just going to stop here.

 

[Deereone]

because it was handy for the knackerman to lift it down by the road, and not have to come up to the yard. i just don't think we are going to see eye to eye on this so i'm just going to stop here.

As a butcher my grandfather would hang a multitude of animals in their jackets outside the shop and no one would bat an eyelid.
Today I hide dead animals from the public so as not to upset anyone although logic tells me I am just making things worse.

 

[turnipkicker]

it's all irrelevant in my opinion, the animal was dead, no matter where you put it it is still dead, what is the difference seeing it there or behind a wall, none, it didn't die because of any sort of mistreatment so i really don't see the problem? the public should realise that with that many animals some are going to die, and as long as they didn't die from any mistreatment, where they are when they are dead is irrelevant.

You fail to understand what we are getting at; it's not our opinion that matters but that of the general meat-buying public. What with the recent Sky video of the ducks being maltreated and the vegan propoganda as highlighted on the BFF it's in our interest to promote livestock agriculture in a good light, and members of the general public seeing deadstock in fields is not going to help that no matter how many times you try and tell them that the calf in question wasn't mistreated.

 

[scoffcruddle]

You fail to understand what we are getting at; it's not our opinion that matters but that of the general meat-buying public. What with the recent Sky video of the ducks being maltreated and the vegan propoganda as highlighted on the BFF it's in our interest to promote livestock agriculture in a good light, and members of the general public seeing deadstock in fields is not going to help that no matter how many times you try and tell them that the calf in question wasn't mistreated.

But when does it end? the next thing cows wont be able to take a shit in the fields.:001_unsure:

 

[tinman]

But when does it end? the next thing cows wont be able to take a shit in the fields.:001_unsure:

was someone not on about taxing that already:001_unsure:

 

[nashmach]

was someone not on about taxing that already:001_unsure:

The Green Party surely :001_rolleyes::001_rolleyes::001_rolleyes::001_rolleyes:

 

[jcb411abuser]

As a butcher my grandfather would hang a multitude of animals in their jackets outside the shop and no one would bat an eyelid.
Today I hide dead animals from the public so as not to upset anyone although logic tells me I am just making things worse.

exactly, back when people were in touch with their food, instead of just buying it in a vacumm sealed package, none of this bothered them. people call it cruel now but for millenia it was just life. and the whole vegans arguement that if we just ate what we feed to cattle we would be fine, don't see to many people who can digest grass very well, or the stalk of a maize plant, or straw, and we don't digest wholegrain very well anyway, our digestive system is better suited to meat and fruit.

 

[Larry David]

exactly, back when people were in touch with their food, instead of just buying it in a vacumm sealed package, none of this bothered them. people call it cruel now but for millenia it was just life. and the whole vegans arguement that if we just ate what we feed to cattle we would be fine, don't see to many people who can digest grass very well, or the stalk of a maize plant, or straw, and we don't digest wholegrain very well anyway, our digestive system is better suited to meat and fruit.

Cruelty is different and has nothing to do with eating meat. I eat oats every morning and digest it fine