Spring Wheat

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So we import from Uk
I take it we import Skyfall or Crusoe winter wheat?
Why would we bother our arse growing spring wheat if he could grow winter milling ?
 
Is there a reason why we don't grow skyfall or crusoe here other than the fact that no one wants to buy milling wheat? God be with the days of raffles...
I was always lead to believe that our protein levels are not Consistently high enough for us to reliable suppliers of milling wheat. Odlums were the prominent buyers locally and considering their level of commitment to sourcing Irish produce I’m not sure I buy that story.
 
The story was Irish mills could only use spring wheat as they weren’t fancy enough equipment to process winter milling varieties
That was years ago
Someone else says milling is imported from France
Anyway typical bullshit article
All revs and no compression
 
So are there any buyers in Ireland purchasing milling wheat of any kind?

It's impossible to argue with spring versus winter wheat if it suits that field in that year on margins alone.
 
Spring wheat will never compare with winter wheat on Gross Margin BUT if there is any issue in the field that would effect the yield of the winter wheat then sow Spring Wheat as winter wheat has very high costs and needs high yield .
I sow Spring Wheat as a second wheat instead of sowing spring barley . In a Maritime climate Irish wheat can never meet the quality of continental wheat and Irish millers should stick to what they are good at which is sticking a shamrock on continental wheat milled in Ireland . The Buyer in Odlums takes his holidays in late August early September .
 
I was reading that article and trying to square it in my head too. While its nice to think that spring wheat would be successful, its certainly not my favourite cereal.

Its the one crop that personally I struggle to get yield out of. Obviously sowing early enough is important but I think there is a soil type issue too - just based on those that I see achieving high yields from the crop over the years. Can think of a number of growers who leave me for dead in terms of yield of spring wheat (4tn+/acre). In all cases, they are on lighter red sandstone land in places that would be seen as lower yielding areas.
Its a crop for which I find it hard to make the sums add up but as said, there are those for whom it can really perform. Also, there is some quite good variety improvement under way.

In terms of milling wheat;

We have very high wheat yield potential in Ireland compared to other countries. This high potential means that we generally get dilution of the protein which is not what the bakers want. As we struggle to get protein % high enough, we (the farmers) then focus on the higher yielding feed type varieties as opposed to the bread type varieties which are generally lower yielding. The result is that millers cant be sure of getting enough milling wheat and just import as its more reliable in terms of supply.

Also, a wet harvest in Ireland can lead to grain Hagberg Falling Numbers being too low for milling which is again another challenge. However, some varieties will retain their high hagberg number better than others (generally those that are more resistant to sprouting will also have higher HFN's).

Winter varieties are generally what is imported, as mentioned the likes of Skyfall from the UK and other wheat from France and Canada. These lower yielding climates tend to have higher protein %. Spring wheat is a small crop in Europe and so isn't traded that much.
Skyfall is an interesting one, it has become so popular in the UK (because it yields relatively well) that the premium for milling wheat there has fallen and therefore milling wheat is cheaper to buy compared to before. Before anyone asks, we have tried Skyfall here and it just didn't perform.

The only real way that I can see a reliable supply of milling wheat here is that if we find varieties (probably winter) that can yield aswell as delivering grain that has good milling quality. The last one of these was Cordiale. The closest thing I can see to what is needed is the new wheat variety Cellule, the variety has to prove itself first though.

It is of course a bit chicken and egg - we need the wheat quality but we also need someone that can mill a large quantity of wheat.
 
I was reading that article and trying to square it in my head too. While its nice to think that spring wheat would be successful, its certainly not my favourite cereal.

Its the one crop that personally I struggle to get yield out of. Obviously sowing early enough is important but I think there is a soil type issue too - just based on those that I see achieving high yields from the crop over the years. Can think of a number of growers who leave me for dead in terms of yield of spring wheat (4tn+/acre). In all cases, they are on lighter red sandstone land in places that would be seen as lower yielding areas.
Its a crop for which I find it hard to make the sums add up but as said, there are those for whom it can really perform. Also, there is some quite good variety improvement under way.

In terms of milling wheat;

We have very high wheat yield potential in Ireland compared to other countries. This high potential means that we generally get dilution of the protein which is not what the bakers want. As we struggle to get protein % high enough, we (the farmers) then focus on the higher yielding feed type varieties as opposed to the bread type varieties which are generally lower yielding. The result is that millers cant be sure of getting enough milling wheat and just import as its more reliable in terms of supply.

Also, a wet harvest in Ireland can lead to grain Hagberg Falling Numbers being too low for milling which is again another challenge. However, some varieties will retain their high hagberg number better than others (generally those that are more resistant to sprouting will also have higher HFN's).

Winter varieties are generally what is imported, as mentioned the likes of Skyfall from the UK and other wheat from France and Canada. These lower yielding climates tend to have higher protein %. Spring wheat is a small crop in Europe and so isn't traded that much.
Skyfall is an interesting one, it has become so popular in the UK (because it yields relatively well) that the premium for milling wheat there has fallen and therefore milling wheat is cheaper to buy compared to before. Before anyone asks, we have tried Skyfall here and it just didn't perform.

The only real way that I can see a reliable supply of milling wheat here is that if we find varieties (probably winter) that can yield aswell as delivering grain that has good milling quality. The last one of these was Cordiale. The closest thing I can see to what is needed is the new wheat variety Cellule, the variety has to prove itself first though.

It is of course a bit chicken and egg - we need the wheat quality but we also need someone that can mill a large quantity of wheat.

While I agree with most of what you are saying, I think you are painting the millers in a much more positive light than most in the trade would. They have treated grain merchants very badly over the years and place no value on using home grown product, they are very difficult to deal with and seem to have no interest in Irish grain. Some of the British millers have tried their best to promote UK wheat, but not here. I wouldn't be in any rush trying to grow for the current millers ever again.
 
While I agree with most of what you are saying, I think you are painting the millers in a much more positive light than most in the trade would. They have treated grain merchants very badly over the years and place no value on using home grown product, they are very difficult to deal with and seem to have no interest in Irish grain. Some of the British millers have tried their best to promote UK wheat, but not here. I wouldn't be in any rush trying to grow for the current millers ever again.

I actually didn’t mention millers much as they’ve mostly disappeared over the years. It’s actually flour that’s imported now as opposed to wheat.
Thus my last sentence saying that we need a large miller.

Millers (in general) are just like any other business- trying to compete economically while producing what the baker wants.
 
Irish wheat makes very good soft flour suitable for biscuits, cakes and wholemeal bread, but poor for white bread. It could have been marketed as such and more done to promote it, but I would guess the loss of a lot Jacobs production was a nail in the coffin of the industry, I still say the way they treated small independent merchants was a disgrace and I have no interest in ever growing anything for them again.
I don't think that there is much room for a low premium grain anymore in this country, with the fall in area and the rise in demand for malt it is fighting for a very small area. I realise you aren't defending them, I just wanted to say that it has mainly the millers own decisions that killed the milling wheat trade in this area.
 
Irish wheat makes very good soft flour suitable for biscuits, cakes and wholemeal bread, but poor for white bread. It could have been marketed as such and more done to promote it, but I would guess the loss of a lot Jacobs production was a nail in the coffin of the industry, I still say the way they treated small independent merchants was a disgrace and I have no interest in ever growing anything for them again.
I don't think that there is much room for a low premium grain anymore in this country, with the fall in area and the rise in demand for malt it is fighting for a very small area. I realise you aren't defending them, I just wanted to say that it has mainly the millers own decisions that killed the milling wheat trade in this area.
Yep, I’d agree with you on the biscuit wheats in that they are easier to grow in terms of yield and have a lower protein requirement but that’s a small market I’m afraid compared to bread wheat.
Also, the real biscuit wheats are generally weak on sprouting, it’s hard to win!
 
The only advantage of spring wheat that I see is that you can put out a serious amount of organic manures and grow it very cheaply with little or no bagged fert. The major mildew issues seen last year are a concern tho.
 
The only advantage of spring wheat that I see is that you can put out a serious amount of organic manures and grow it very cheaply with little or no bagged fert. The major mildew issues seen last year are a concern tho.

Mildew could become even more important as it looks like we may only have 2 years at the max to use Morpholines.

Curativity of the disease could prove very tricky indeed. Preventative chemistry and/or genetics will be our only hope.
 
Off the top of my head was there some research last year that seemed to suggest proline had very good preventative effects against mildew? And was there a link suggested between rates of k applied and mildew? I could be wrong.
 
Off the top of my head was there some research last year that seemed to suggest proline had very good preventative effects against mildew? And was there a link suggested between rates of k applied and mildew? I could be wrong.
Going by HGCA or whatever the new name is they rate proline almost as good as tern/corbel for mildew, in field experience from last year I couldn't agree with them.
I think it was P that was the Element that was good for mildew prevention, in the UK they spray phosphite on beans for Downey mildew. A neighbour here has seriously high P levels, 25ppm + due to poultry manures etc and his spring wheat I saw all season that had very low levels, everyone else's was a holy disgrace. Similar fungicide programmes.
 
Going by HGCA or whatever the new name is they rate proline almost as good as tern/corbel for mildew, in field experience from last year I couldn't agree with them.
I think it was P that was the Element that was good for mildew prevention, in the UK they spray phosphite on beans for Downey mildew. A neighbour here has seriously high P levels, 25ppm + due to poultry manures etc and his spring wheat I saw all season that had very low levels, everyone else's was a holy disgrace. Similar fungicide programmes.

I would rate proline good but only in terms of prevention, if there’s any mildew in then a waste of time.
Loads of P here (mega levels) and still had mega mildew in susceptible spring and winter varieties...

Phosphite (different to Phosphorus) is shown to be good on Downey mildew but no effect on powdery mildew as far as I’m aware.
 
I hope @CORK has all his SW seed ready, a week of dry weather at the start of March should give some good opportunities, would be great to have it in early
 
Sowed Doubleshot yesterday and opted to use the Kockerling. Put in 30 acres less than I planned and I put Beans in that field .
I upped the seed rate and have not crunched the numbers but I think it might be near 12 stone . There was 60 units of sul can in the seedbed and most of it was after the 7 way magic mix cover crop which got a run of the Horsch Terranno to kill slugs or at least wreck their party .
 
@Bog Man you put a good dollop of N in the seed bed with your s wheat, hope to sow the rest of mine this week, what was your thinking regards N in the seedbed? Anybody else doing similar, why or why not?
 
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