The beef game

diesel power

Well-Known Member
I thought a thread on what we all think of the various breeds versus profit might be useful. I've been keeping detailed records of what breed does what in money terms and I've arrived at one or 2 conclusions.
1, the continental breeds can't be bet for profit
2, this was a shocker to me. Hex or whitehead cattle are loss makers. Couldn't believe that one myself but the figures don't lie.
There's always been whiteheads here but after my discovery tonight this year will be a whitehead free one for us. I only had a handful of them to begin with and everyone of them has cost us.
3, I did a bit of experimenting last year with buying in 600-650 kilo cattle and ad-lib feeding them meal for 6 weeks and then killing them and the figures don't lie, smaller profit but a quick turnaround. I won't post them here but if ye want to know Pm me and I'll be glad to answer if I can.
I'm gonna try it again in a bit bigger way and see how it goes. You need to know though what it is your doing or it will cost you a small fortune.
These are just some of my observations so feel free to contribute or question.
Maybe this is a crap thread but it's something I'm very interested in as it keeps the roof over my head and with the sfp getting a good shave I'd like to get the old place into a position where it can well an truly stand on it's own.
 
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DP, good thread.

Are you getting HE scheme bonus on those?

I find that is the only way they pay as too many auld lads willing to go to stupid money for having HE.
 
Excellent thread.

Are there many schemes paying more for native breeds that end? I know welsh blacks get a fair old extra whack round here on some schemes, but they have to be registered pedigree!
A few other schemes going on with Herefords and the likes.

Nothing does beat a charolais or the like for really growing, trouble is everyone thinks the same when their in the ring!

Have found here that it's the crap cattle off hard places that will really grow for you (within reason of course!!) Cant figure how lads paying a fortune for almost ready stores and keeping them on make anything!
 
Are we talking as calves or stores?

Stores candor. I like to get them as heavy as I can 500-550kilos and keep them on silage and straw over the winter. Buying under 500 kilos doesn't work on a grass only finishing Farm, the animal has to much growing left to do before he'll start to flesh out.
Nash I'm not in any He scheme. I'm in the AA one but their a bit of a dead loss as well and have gone away from them. Weight is king at the end of the day and conti cattle have that. A cheque from a 400 kilo carcass has a lot more fire power at the Mart then a 350 kilo carcass.
 
Good thread DP I found it hard to get a good kill on the cattle this year without meal at grass for six weeks.Something that never had to be done before here am wondering had last years wet year affected them worse than we thought and one more point has the QA schemes forced our hand in trying to finish younger cattle that need time to get the bonuses although once your QA most factories will pay flat rate for overage cattle.
 
Less scope for profit in stores imo, but calves aren't without their troubles either. The whole lot is dependent on buy in and selling price.
 
As I see it the main problem with buying stores is the price you have to pay seems to be somehow linked to what beef is making in the factory at the time even though that animal wont be beef for 7-9months. If you are using borrowed money you're just borrowing more to purchase stores but the profit is being eaten into by higher interest. I buy 60 or so yearlings in March-April aiming for spring born bullocks 300kg plus, a few years ago I could buy them for 35-40k, now that bunch of animals is costing me the best part of 60k, OK I'm getting maybe 18k more for the 60 when they become beef but I'm paying interest on an extra 20-25k', Used to have a cocktail of Hereford,Angus,Simmental,Limousin and Charolais crosses,but for the last 3 years I've concentrated more on the LMX and CHX, Hereford and Angus schemes are no good if they don't grade correct but that usually means a carcase of about 330kg, with the LMX and CHX I am getting to over 400kg under 30 months and more U grades, 50x400kgx €4.30= €86,000....60x330kgx€4.20=€83,160. What I'm trying to show is 50 CHX/LMX cattle for 55k will leave more than 60 of a cocktail for the same money with the added saving on mart fees, transport, dosing, herd test, winter accommodation, transport to slaughter and factory deductions
 
At mart the other day 615kgs €1450 455kgs €1440 just an example DP if the system works for you your right
 
BULL beef here, mostly friesians . Ii rear all calves born off the milkers and buy a further 34-40 as calves or runners
I was at bullocks for years but I thought that the were too slow.The bulls are a good bit quicker ,but you have to be prepared to finish them.
 
BULL beef here, mostly friesians . Ii rear all calves born off the milkers and buy a further 34-40 as calves or runners
I was at bullocks for years but I thought that the were too slow.The bulls are a good bit quicker ,but you have to be prepared to finish them.
Do you keep them indoors? I had a few yearling bulls at the start of the year a couple of them took a shine to the neighbours heifers one day and they a bullocks now :001_smile:
 
Do you keep them indoors? I had a few yearling bulls at the start of the year a couple of them took a shine to the neighbours heifers one day and they a bullocks now :001_smile:

The second summer can be tricky ,but the are out since mar/april .I am bringing them in at the moment . the are 18/19 months old average weight 450kg.
 
The second summer can be tricky ,but the are out since mar/april .I am bringing them in at the moment . the are 18/19 months old average weight 450kg.

Is there an actual market for them as factories seem to want to move back more and more to less than 16 month bull beef.
 
Good thread DP I found it hard to get a good kill on the cattle this year without meal at grass for six weeks.Something that never had to be done before here am wondering had last years wet year affected them worse than we thought and one more point has the QA schemes forced our hand in trying to finish younger cattle that need time to get the bonuses although once your QA most factories will pay flat rate for overage cattle.

Hmm thinking that here as well. I personally think the cattle got a raw do last summer if you'd call it that on watery grass and then middling silage at best over the winter and to really put the tin hat on it the spring didn't arrive until May when we should have been grazing for a month or more. Instead cattle were locked in and half hungry all the while gaining nothing in weight. Normally there'd be 40 or so cattle at most here at this time of the year. At the moment there's a hundred still here and I doubt we'll have rid of them all before mid Nov.
The QA has forced farmers hands a bit I think. 12 cents a kilo for under 30 mths is a lot to loose out on.
 
The QA has forced farmers hands a bit I think. 12 cents a kilo for under 30 mths is a lot to loose out on.

Probably the main reason the factories are able to give such an inferior price compared to the UK, getting enough stock to kill with the amount of March/April cattle that would have just been knocking on 30 months. IMO we were better off at the 6cent and let them go over age, be easier make up the loss with extra weight.
 
Probably the main reason the factories are able to give such an inferior price compared to the UK, getting enough stock to kill with the amount of March/April cattle that would have just been knocking on 30 months. IMO we were better off at the 6cent and let them go over age, be easier make up the loss with extra weight.

Thats what we always did but the 12 cents changes the game plan a bit. I still have a nice few cattle that are overage now and a a few more on the pop of it and tbh unless their fit to go I'll feed them on for longer. I think this year is going to prove to be a tough one to make any meaningful profit from bullocks with the stupid prices I see at the ringside. Thats why I started this thread to see what others are doing and see what works and what doesn't. With the success I had last year buying heavy cattle and ad-lib feeding them for a sort time and if it works again this year I might reduce the number of cattle I graze and cut more silage. At 100 a head profit for 6 weeks last year and if I could manage something similar again then grass finishing that takes 12 months more or less would be a non runner imo. I do think that as farmers we aren't ruthless enough a lot of the time. I don't mean ruthless with each other but with going through the books and weeding out anything that isn't working.
 
Hit the nail on the head there as regards the stupid prices being paid, OK so it's probably a help to the suckler guy that is doing calf to beef but as we know he's struggling with the cost of keeping the cow. When I'm at the marts in spring I'm up against the likes of Coolmore stud when the nice charolais cattle come into the ring, very hard to buy cattle right in that scenario.
 
winter finishers all expect to get bargains every year . at whose expense? GET A GRIP

Do you know the true cost of winter finishing?

Most of the time we are busy fools :thumbdown:

I will say though something had better be done about the SCWS tomorrow in the budget, hearing lots of stories of lads buying weanlings getting trouble with sicknesses of various sorts due to just weaned animals.
 
Thats where ur wrong Calf to beef .Why get all the grief ? & give the profit to the finisher for little effort
 
Thats where ur wrong Calf to beef .Why get all the grief ? & give the profit to the finisher for little effort

Are you joking? Nashmach has already said it but you obviously didn't see it,
have you any idea at all of the costs?. If you can't make money selling a store for 1300-1400 Euro your doing something wrong and saying the finisher is at fault is wrong.
 
Thats where ur wrong Calf to beef .Why get all the grief ? & give the profit to the finisher for little effort

Why rear any calves then if all the money is in buying stores and finishing them?

The sad reality is the only real profit in beef is made by the people who own the shop shelves.
 
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