Tillage costs and costings

C

Cork

Guest
Knowledge is power @JOHNNY BOY . Margins are so tight in all types of farming at the moment, that only those making the most informed decisions are staying in the black. When prices of the output are high, it easy enough to make a margin.

My inlaws are from the Cork/Kerry border - the other end of Cork county from me. I often think to myself that it would be so much harder to do tillage there even if they had soil purely because of rainfall - it just rains so much more and more often than where I am (and where I am isn't the driest place on earth).

If you were to go at tillage, I think fodder beet and spring barley would be the crops of choice. Forget about winter crops or wheat or maize. Spring barley and beet are more tolerant of wet weather (to a point) and they are more forgiving if sown a little late. I wouldn't recommend sowing barley in May though. Also both the barley and beet will be very saleable in your region.

We have what I consider very good land in my area. Just did the crop margin analysis for 2016 the other day. Our spring barley averaged 3.4tn/ac at 20% mc. This was all grown for seed so attracted premiums. Straw yield and price were good. Our machinery cost is an average of €160/acre across all crops (some contractor and some owned).

Fert cost was €124/acre. Seed and chemicals was €142/acre. Average margin on the spring barley was €277/acre. This margin includes machinery, chems, seed and fert. It does not include fixed costs such as Electricity, Accountancy etc nor does it include GLAS or Basic Payment.
 
CORK said:
Knowledge is power @JOHNNY BOY . Margins are so tight in all types of farming at the moment, that only those making the most informed decisions are staying in the black. When prices of the output are high, it easy enough to make a margin.

My inlaws are from the Cork/Kerry border - the other end of Cork county from me. I often think to myself that it would be so much harder to do tillage there even if they had soil purely because of rainfall - it just rains so much more and more often than where I am (and where I am isn't the driest place on earth).

If you were to go at tillage, I think fodder beet and spring barley would be the crops of choice. Forget about winter crops or wheat or maize. Spring barley and beet are more tolerant of wet weather (to a point) and they are more forgiving if sown a little late. I wouldn't recommend sowing barley in May though. Also both the barley and beet will be very saleable in your region.

We have what I consider very good land in my area. Just did the crop margin analysis for 2016 the other day. Our spring barley averaged 3.4tn/ac at 20% mc. This was all grown for seed so attracted premiums. Straw yield and price were good. Our machinery cost is an average of €160/acre across all crops (some contractor and some owned).

Fert cost was €124/acre. Seed and chemicals was €142/acre. Average margin on the spring barley was €277/acre. This margin includes machinery, chems, seed and fert. It does not include fixed costs such as Electricity, Accountancy etc nor does it include GLAS or Basic Payment.
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Is there much of a Bonus for growing seed because Glanbia always quoted a ridiculous base price and then added the bonus . I put in my figures for 3.26 t / acre dry and a price of €150 + €60/acre for the straw and I end up with a Margin of €214 and my seed fertiliser and chemicals only come to €184 .
 
Bog Man said:
Is there much of a Bonus for growing seed because Glanbia always quoted a ridiculous base price and then added the bonus . I put in my figures for 3.26 t / acre dry and a price of €150 + €60/acre for the straw and I end up with a Margin of €214 and my seed fertiliser and chemicals only come to €184 .
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At a reasonable yield of 3tn/ac, the seed bonus would be worth in the region of €50/acre nett of the extra cost of the basic seed. The basic seed costs approx €14/ac more than the cost certified blue label seed.

what machinery cost do you use?
 
CORK said:
At a reasonable yield of 3tn/ac, the seed bonus would be worth in the region of €50/acre nett of the extra cost of the basic seed. The basic seed costs approx €14/ac more than the cost certified blue label seed.

what machinery cost do you use?
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Machinery cost of €150 /acre
 
Bog Man said:
Corks material costs are more than €80 above mine yet his margin is more than €63 above mine .
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68 for chemicals as I had wild oats and moddus + terpal (+vat). Seed was 37. 216 in total for inputs. It did get a good slap of dung alright, I'd put that at a tenner an acre.
 
Blackwater boy said:
68 for chemicals as I had wild oats and moddus + terpal (+vat). Seed was 37. 216 in total for inputs. It did get a good slap of dung alright, I'd put that at a tenner an acre.
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im definitely a high input guy but i generally get good yields. Our barley yields were held back to 3.4 because half it lodged. We had some yielding 4tn at 20%. Ours all gets 0.4 axial too for canary grass, our seed cost is higher because of basic seed.
 
CORK said:
im definitely a high input guy but i generally get good yields. Our barley yields were held back to 3.4 because half it lodged. We had some yielding 4tn at 20%. Ours all gets 0.4 axial too for canary grass, our seed cost is higher because of basic seed.
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I was at .2 axial. I'm a high input guy too tho....
 
Bog Man said:
I am at .277 for axial but Corks higher rate would only be a few €extra . Maybe I should buy Corks inputs and he could sell my Straw .:lol::lol:
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i would be 0.4 proline plus 0.3 corbel followed by 1.5 ceriax and 1.0 bravo.
 
Blackwater boy said:
68 for chemicals as I had wild oats and moddus + terpal (+vat). Seed was 37. 216 in total for inputs. It did get a good slap of dung alright, I'd put that at a tenner an acre.
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i paid for sprays and spraying today, 25 acres came to 2500 euro, am i way out of line there, spring barley
 
humungus said:
i paid for sprays and spraying today, 25 acres came to 2500 euro, am i way out of line there, spring barley
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I would have thought 3 sprays at around €7 per acre for spraying roughly is around €500. My SB chemical spray inputs are €62 per acre which includes some wild oat spray, roughly another €1550.
Presuming the spraying price is similar, €80 per acre for sprays seems a lot.
MF30
 
humungus said:
i paid for sprays and spraying today, 25 acres came to 2500 euro, am i way out of line there, spring barley
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That's incl vat but it all depends on what you put out, any idea what you put on? Things like wild oats, trace elements, growth regs are all extras. 50 an acre plus vat would do a nice job usually without wild oats
 
MF30 said:
I would have thought 3 sprays at around €7 per acre for spraying roughly is around €500. My SB chemical spray inputs are €62 per acre which includes some wild oat spray, roughly another €1550.
Presuming the spraying price is similar, €80 per acre for sprays seems a lot.
MF30
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to be honest i,m not sure off the top of my head how many times it was sprayed but i,d say at least 4 times including wild oat spray, spraying is 8,50 an acre inc vat, i,m not registered for vat so its included in the price, all i know is that next year it will be sprayed twice and thats it and i,ll take whatever it yields
 
Blackwater boy said:
That's incl vat but it all depends on what you put out, any idea what you put on? Things like wild oats, trace elements, growth regs are all extras. 50 an acre plus vat would do a nice job usually without wild oats
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i,d have to go rooting for dockets and herself would have to do it because i,d destroy her filing system, i think it was sprayed for aphids early on but anyway i was getting better yields 10 year ago with less spray, these sprays are a bit like insurance "what would happen to the place if you got sick, got knocked down by a bus or got a serious illness"
 
My 3 sprays would include the wild oat spray in the second spray. The fourth spray if you were charged for it might be for spraying off the stubble with glyphosate before ploughing...
MF30
 
humungus said:
i,d have to go rooting for dockets and herself would have to do it because i,d destroy her filing system, i think it was sprayed for aphids early on but anyway i was getting better yields 10 year ago with less spray, these sprays are a bit like insurance "what would happen to the place if you got sick, got knocked down by a bus or got a serious illness"
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It all depends on what you put on, you will have to figure that out first. Have you them written down for cross compliance.!!!!!!
 
MF30 said:
My 3 sprays would include the wild oat spray in the second spray. The fourth spray if you were charged for it might be for spraying off the stubble with glyphosate before ploughing...
MF30
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no i paid for that in the spring
 
Great thread Cork.

My spray bill is about 75 euros an acre including VAT. That excludes Roundup at a further 7 an acre Inc VAT. Wild oat spray on half it. I can get accurate figures next week as Dad and I had some cross purchases too but think they balanced out from memory.

My fertiliser bill is large with lime at 42 an acre plus 4.5 bags of 0/7/30 and an average of 3.25 bags of Sulfa CAN too.

Sadly my profit at 2.67t/ac won't be huge..... and luckily low straw yield is made up by a better price.

Bog Man does your machinery costs include drying costs?
 
Bog Man said:
You may sell my straw so .
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funny that you should say that. Two straw buyers (both dealers) have asked why our straw is so golden. Another guy asked last year.
Its down to Ceriax, it is mighty stuff for straw colour and for lessening brackling.
The Corbel is used as an anti resistance measure as opposed to using Proline on its own (I'm trying to be responsible).

I raised the straw price for one dealer this year to what I felt was a fair price. He added a euro to it.....

I would say that weathered non golden straw is every bit as good or better for soakage in bedding but those feeding straw want it better than that. I have even seen a difference in the colour of our stubbles for a number of weeks after harvest compared to neighbours.
Adequate Potash makes a big difference to straw quality two.
 
Blackwater boy said:
My fert on spring barley was 110 and that was 4 bags of 13-6-20 and 2.7 of can and I taught I was high.....
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ill have to double check our fertiliser cost.

my costings include gallup in the spring and dursban the previous autumn for leatherjackets. I would be at 125-130 units of N.
seed rates wouldnt be skimped on either.

the 2016 average of 3.4tn would be our lowest in a number of years - soley due to the lodging consequences of sowing barley at the end of april.
 
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