Unmounding

Discussion in 'Forestry' started by JohnBoy, Nov 19, 2017.

  1. JohnBoy

    JohnBoy Well-Known Member

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    We have some ground that was mounded 12 months ago for planting but is not being planted.

    I need to level it off and probably fill in at least some of the drains.

    Anyone ever done something like this before?

    All suggestions for an approach are welcome
     

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  2. lough

    lough Well-Known Member

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    A 13 ton digger and a sheugh bucket would be in its element there, pull the mounds into the open drains, maybe graze it of first, or spray it with roundup
     
  3. JohnBoy

    JohnBoy Well-Known Member

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    Unless a brave man with a quad was willing to spray it at low speed then it's not an option,walked it yesterday and it's barely walkable, sprayer booms would be wrecked.

    It's not fenced for sheep and there's still a thousand or so young trees in it so can't let cattle in.

    How many days per acre,or would it be acres per day, ground is fully solid and very trafficable apart from being so rough
     
  4. diesel power

    diesel power Well-Known Member

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    Track machine is the only option there. A good operator would cover a good area per day.
     
  5. jf 850

    jf 850 Well-Known Member

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    A fair bit of work in it. Track machine be your best bet.

    If it has trees planted in it , as you say , why unmound it ?
     
  6. lough

    lough Well-Known Member

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    A big tractor say a four wheel drive 100hp, going very slow and a small sprayer something like a 44 gallon hardi might be able to spray it, if it was sprayed now it would be well rotted by the spring time
    Horses might be an option, a single strand of white tape would keep them in and they would clean it down to the soil
    I don't know how many acres you would do in a day but a good driver could easily do twice as much as a bad driver, I saw two drivers lately leveling stone on a street and well:unsure::angry::cry::no::ohmy::scared: at least I wasn't paying
    A knapsack:lol:
     
  7. JohnBoy

    JohnBoy Well-Known Member

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    It's land that had ash which died and was cleared then re-mounded to be planted again, except we might be taking a different direction, considering agroforestry which would need leveling. But there's still birch and alder in 10% of the area which need to be kept, hence the grazing issue.

    There's nearly 8 acres to be levelled
     
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  8. kverneland es 80

    kverneland es 80 Well-Known Member

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    bring in the local dozer man
     
  9. muckymanor

    muckymanor Well-Known Member

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    I would not worry about grass.
    You are talking several days work for a track machine.
    Bring in a dozer and he'll push out 8 acres for you in a day with ease, scrape the grass off the top and leave it ready for you to sow grass. I wouldn't do it till you were ready to reseed it because the weather will wash it out if you do.
     
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  10. JohnBoy

    JohnBoy Well-Known Member

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    What sort of money would a dozer man be for a day?

    Would it be worth throwing a pipe into the mounding drains before filling? they're 1-2 feet deep I was kindof thinking of piping the ones that have a bit of water in them.

    Sorry for all the questions, trying to get a rough idea of what this should all cost. will have to be left bare for a while unfortunately, trees and grass have pretty different planting times, will have to plant the trees late and the grass early, which I suppose is only a month or two. Cant be any worse than last winter. After clearance but before it got mounded without our agreement it looked like this:
     

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  11. Profi Farmer

    Profi Farmer Well-Known Member

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    @JohnBoy I think you would be wasting money chucking a pipe into the mounding drains. The falls will probably be wrong and you will use more stone in the wider trench - but I not diddly about mounding drains.

    With the Agro Forestry how wide apart do you put the trees, Would it be worth running drains up the middle of the grass area? I would imagine the trees will 'dry up' the area directly around them somewhat.
     
  12. JohnBoy

    JohnBoy Well-Known Member

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    Yeah you're probably right about the drains, just seems a bit of a waste when they're already dug.

    Spacing is still to be determined, the agro side would like the widest rows and the forestry the narrowest.

    They're talking 7-8m rows which is pretty narrow to be honest. Id rather a double row of trees and 10m or maybe even cluster plantings which would open up to 15m spaces.

    All to be discussed in detail yet.
     
  13. AYF

    AYF Well-Known Member

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    What does agroforestry involve?? Planting between the rows of trees? Or grazing?

    Id say dozer would be the way.
     
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  14. JohnBoy

    JohnBoy Well-Known Member

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    Theoretically it's practicing agriculture and forestry at the same time on the same land.

    Doesn't really suit tillage in this climate due to shading but can work well with it in hotter places as it helps to regulate soil moisture.

    We're looking at grass between the trees. Our alternatives are pine trees which are ugly, oak and beech which will take forever to give any return or pay the department back 6 years of payments and two rounds of grants so agroforestry gives us back the ground to a good extent
     
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  15. nashmach

    nashmach Moderator

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    What kind of depth of soil have you there JohnBoy?

    Id be concerned that your mounding could be at that layer so dozing could make the ground even worse.....
     
  16. JohnBoy

    JohnBoy Well-Known Member

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    They buried half the topsoil along with the ash trees already nash, it's a mess already, gonna take years of serious dunging to rebuild any semblance of a topsoil in places.

    It's about six inches above a stony grey subsoil
     
  17. Arthur

    Arthur Well-Known Member

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    If you decide to use a dozer it might be no harm to have him pull a ripper through it after levelling, it might create some drainage in the subsoil.
     
  18. jf 850

    jf 850 Well-Known Member

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    Replant with something suited to wet ground ? Was it even marginal for ash growing in the first place ?
    After all mounding , unmounding etc , soil will be even poorer than it was originally . You could spend a tidy sum , and it still grow feck all grass.
    Depending on fall , lie of land etc, is the question with putting stone in those shores might have some merit in really wet spots. Pipe a waste of money.
     
  19. JohnBoy

    JohnBoy Well-Known Member

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    The soil is shallow but good, it'll grow 8 foot thistles!

    It's wet because it lies in a valley but within 3 years of the trees being planted the whole lot had dried up, the roots opened up the subsoil and it was one of the driest fields in the farm, drier than the silage field that lies above it. The ash grew great for a few years until dieback took hold and then it stalled


    Rows of trees should have a similar drying effect and nature can repair soil, with a little help along the way from a dung spreader
     
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  20. ford76

    ford76 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry for bumping up but anymore on this. Wer you allowed to level out the ground
     
  21. JohnBoy

    JohnBoy Well-Known Member

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    Still waiting for approval from the department to go ahead with the plan
     
  22. JohnBoy

    JohnBoy Well-Known Member

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    Looks like this is going ahead, walked the ground on Saturday, it's still probably the driest field in the place, it's amazing what the trees did for percolation in it.

    Will talk to a few machine men in the next few weeks about it.
     
  23. JohnBoy

    JohnBoy Well-Known Member

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    It took weeks to get anyone to look at this job, everyone's been playing catchup on a spring of missed work. by which time the place has gone wild.

    There's too much grass on it, the dozer will just pull the whole sod into a heap. it's gonna have to be sprayed off, but it's not travelable with a sprayer, you'd shake the booms asunder.

    looking into someone with a quad, but I'd say I'll be putting my own quad sprayer in the transport box of the 20 and spending a few hours getting tossed around
     
  24. scoffcruddle

    scoffcruddle Well-Known Member

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    Helicopter sprayer!

    Drone sprayer?
     
  25. JohnBoy

    JohnBoy Well-Known Member

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    we did joke about a helicopter alright, need something a little less indiscriminate as there's trees to be retained too.
     

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