you have two choices with cattle

JOHNNY BOY said:
Believe me i have been of the same opinion as yourself in the past and what you made for your part of the winter is more than you will havd for the rest of time to finish at a daily rate that is. There is no big money out of any part of the system of animals but it is only by the numbers of animals andplants a bit of luck that anyone makes money.:thumbup::thumbup:
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i dont know what percentage of men ( or what breed you need ) get the thousand euro for weanlings off the cow but one thing is certain , anyone getting that kind of money has the most profit out of the system

perhaps using belgian blue AI on cows is the best way to target the weanling market , seen a belgian blue making savage money today
 
new_arrival said:
i dont know what percentage of men ( or what breed you need ) get the thousand euro for weanlings off the cow but one thing is certain , anyone getting that kind of money has the most profit out of the system

perhaps using belgian blue AI on cows is the best way to target the weanling market , seen a belgian blue making savage money today
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Am a suckler farmer myself and theres not many different systems of it i have to tried ( believe me:D) a lot of the time the big money belgian blue or any breed does not always leave more money in your pocket, because of sections cows not going back in calf, in my opinion if you can get a good average on a good enough stocking rate with expenses kept to a reasonable rate you will be as well of as any farmer working in any system of farming. Apart from dairy men of course:fighting::tt2::tt2::tt2:
 
I have br fr bullock just over 30 months about 630kgs going to mart hoping for €1.80/1.90 per kg could do with 6 weeks feeding .After bringing this far I was hoping to finish myself but finally got sick of hauling buckets of nuts . They are june 12 calves and this is probably the first time there might be a small margin in selling. these would have made aroud €100 as calves in late summer 12
€300 as weanlnigs in spring 13
€600 as year and 1/2 in spring 14
€750 as 2yo in autumn 14
so anytime I would have sold before now would have been at a loss ,this lift in prices in fairness is well overdue
 
JOHNNY BOY said:
Am a suckler farmer myself and theres not many different systems of it i have to tried ( believe me:D) a lot of the time the big money belgian blue or any breed does not always leave more money in your pocket, because of sections cows not going back in calf, in my opinion if you can get a good average on a good enough stocking rate with expenses kept to a reasonable rate you will be as well of as any farmer working in any system of farming. Apart from dairy men of course:fighting::tt2::tt2::tt2:
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Ive a Belgium blue bull here the last 5 years and I find him fairly easy calveing and I find that he definaly leaves me more money compared to my abedeen angus bull.
I see myself in the marts that buyers are after good weights at low ages and good colour and shape and if you have all three youl get well paid for your cattle :thumbup:
 
farmer pickells said:
Ive a Belgium blue bull here the last 5 years and I find him fairly easy calveing and I find that he definaly leaves me more money compared to my abedeen angus bull.
I see myself in the marts that buyers are after good weights at low ages and good colour and shape and if you have all three youl get well paid for your cattle :thumbup:
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Totally agree with you on the3 matter, but what new arrival iss on about i would be thinking is the exceptional ones that dont come around to often. You obviously haave started with the right cow and chose your bull wisely. Had you gone for a Belgium blue bull off some of the very big hard calving blue bulls that give very expensive calf's (sometimes) would you be as pro them then, just wondering. By the way do use blue's myself sometimes. Also hard to compare calfs off a blue and angus for price.
 
JOHNNY BOY said:
Totally agree with you on the3 matter, but what new arrival iss on about i would be thinking is the exceptional ones that dont come around to often. You obviously haave started with the right cow and chose your bull wisely. Had you gone for a Belgium blue bull off some of the very big hard calving blue bulls that give very expensive calf's (sometimes) would you be as pro them then, just wondering. By the way do use blue's myself sometimes. Also hard to compare calfs off a blue and angus for price.
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Well my cows are a mix of angus,limousin and charlois cows all out of dairy cows as their all fairly quite and are good to produce milk compared to a 3/4 bred suckler cow.the only hard calveings I had with him was with overfat cows and one 3/4 bred limousine cow which I had to do a section on I even had one blue cow in calf to him that calved on her own :eek:
my bull is a short small bull in comparision to other blues and id rarely have to handle a cow calveing.
I have sold some of his calves for export but I generally finish them all to the factory so colour doesn't really matter to me.
 
farmer pickells said:
Well my cows are a mix of angus,limousin and charlois cows all out of dairy cows as their all fairly quite and are good to produce milk compared to a 3/4 bred suckler cow.the only hard calveings I had with him was with overfat cows and one 3/4 bred limousine cow which I had to do a section on I even had one blue cow in calf to him that calved on her own :eek:
my bull is a short small bull in comparision to other blues and id rarely have to handle a cow calveing.
I have sold some of his calves for export but I generally finish them all to the factory so colour doesn't really matter to me.
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Given you both sell to the mart and the factory, would you agree with new_arrival's basic logic that you should sell young or sell to the factory?
 
farmer pickells said:
Well my cows are a mix of angus,limousin and charlois cows all out of dairy cows as their all fairly quite and are good to produce milk compared to a 3/4 bred suckler cow.the only hard calveings I had with him was with overfat cows and one 3/4 bred limousine cow which I had to do a section on I even had one blue cow in calf to him that calved on her own :eek:
my bull is a short small bull in comparision to other blues and id rarely have to handle a cow calveing.
I have sold some of his calves for export but I generally finish them all to the factory so colour doesn't really matter to me.
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As i said you chose your cows and bull wisely. The (SAVAGE) priced blue bulls at a young age are usually c section calves, i know not always but usually. So hence you have acheived the good average with the minimal expense as i pointed out earlier wich is needed to survive in the suckler trade. :sweatdrop::sweatdrop:
 
JohnBoy said:
Given you both sell to the mart and the factory, would you agree with new_arrival's basic logic that you should sell young or sell to the factory?
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[MENTION=2707]JohnBoy[/MENTION] I don't agree with new arrivals logic that that any man buying in cattle for finishing is making a fortune because they need a profit too and if they lose money they wont be there the next time your selling cattle.
 
farmer pickells said:
[MENTION=2707]JohnBoy[/MENTION] I don't agree with new arrivals logic that that any man buying in cattle for finishing is making a fortune because they need a profit too and if they lose money they wont be there the next time your selling cattle.
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you misunderstood me

i made my point within the context of those who breed their own cattle

im saying those who breed their own cattle ( get cows in calf , deliver the calves and rear them on cows etc ) are better either selling at weaning time or else bringing them to slaughter
 
now lads i know nothing about suck cows or getting them to mother calves but would it be impossible if you had a dual purpose type with a fair bit of milk to put a second bought in calf onto her aswell as her own?
 
jcb411abuser said:
now lads i know nothing about suck cows or getting them to mother calves but would it be impossible if you had a dual purpose type with a fair bit of milk to put a second bought in calf onto her aswell as her own?
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No it used to be common to do that, but lots of hardship !!
 
jcb411abuser said:
so not worth the hassle? would it not increase profits by a fair bit?
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It's a serious hassle to put a new calf on a cow who has lost her calf. Sometimes it will work, but sometimes it will fail. The cow will puck hell out of the new calf. You'll have to hold the cow in a crush or gate for several weeks in order to get her used to the new calf. Even when you think that the cow has taken to the new calf and let them out to grass you will often find that the cow won't let the calf suck.

If you were going to double suck, then the best option would be to have the second calf on hand when the cow is calving. Tie his legs and have him lying down. Cover him in the cow's fluids - water bag fluid, after birth etc. and lay the 2 calves in front of the cow's head to let her lick them and think that she calved both of them. Leave the calf tied until the cow's own calf has sucked and claimed his share of the beastings. It's a lot of work though and can be dangerous. Then 2 calves sucking a cow can be very hard on the cow - if she is a good milker she will burn the fat off her back to keep the 2 calves supplied with milk. She could get poor and she may struggle to go back in calf.

A story for you. I was selling a bull at a sale last year and the guy with the bull in the stall beside me started talking about his bull and asking about mine. Mine was a nice young bull, off a heifer, but she had lots of milk. His was the same age as mine, but looked unreal. really well fed and filled out. He told me that when his was born, the cow had no milk at all, so he had to buy a dairy cow for €1500. All he wanted to talk about was money. What did i think my bull was worth, how much it had cost me to put him this far? I told him that I would be happy selling mine at €2500. I'd have €700 or €800 out of him at that. He said that he needed €3000 for his because he was a better bull than mine. I said surely you'll need more than that to have him clear. Not at all he said, I'd be clear at €2000. He got mad with me when i went through my figures and then went through his:

€600 for feeding my cow for the year. Bull ate €600 worth of meal. Testing, grooming, ai straw, transport etc.

For yer man: €600 for feeding the calf's mother. €1500 to buy the dairy cow which didn't go back in calf and got very poor and was valued at about €800 at this stage, €600 for feeding the dairy cow. Meal €600. testing, grooming, ai straw, transport, etc.

My bull cost me about €1800. His bull cost him €3000 to get that far. He was raging mad with me for pointing out these figures to him. Anyway, it was a poor enough sale and I let mine go for €2200. He was in the ring just before mine and got the top price of the day for Limousin Bull of €2500.

He got his picture in the paper, but it cost him at least €500 for the pleasure.
Cattle are not always what they appear to be.
 
muckymanor said:
It's a serious hassle to put a new calf on a cow who has lost her calf. Sometimes it will work, but sometimes it will fail. The cow will puck hell out of the new calf. You'll have to hold the cow in a crush or gate for several weeks in order to get her used to the new calf. Even when you think that the cow has taken to the new calf and let them out to grass you will often find that the cow won't let the calf suck.

If you were going to double suck, then the best option would be to have the second calf on hand when the cow is calving. Tie his legs and have him lying down. Cover him in the cow's fluids - water bag fluid, after birth etc. and lay the 2 calves in front of the cow's head to let her lick them and think that she calved both of them. Leave the calf tied until the cow's own calf has sucked and claimed his share of the beastings. It's a lot of work though and can be dangerous. Then 2 calves sucking a cow can be very hard on the cow - if she is a good milker she will burn the fat off her back to keep the 2 calves supplied with milk. She could get poor and she may struggle to go back in calf.

A story for you. I was selling a bull at a sale last year and the guy with the bull in the stall beside me started talking about his bull and asking about mine. Mine was a nice young bull, off a heifer, but she had lots of milk. His was the same age as mine, but looked unreal. really well fed and filled out. He told me that when his was born, the cow had no milk at all, so he had to buy a dairy cow for €1500. All he wanted to talk about was money. What did i think my bull was worth, how much it had cost me to put him this far? I told him that I would be happy selling mine at €2500. I'd have €700 or €800 out of him at that. He said that he needed €3000 for his because he was a better bull than mine. I said surely you'll need more than that to have him clear. Not at all he said, I'd be clear at €2000. He got mad with me when i went through my figures and then went through his:

€600 for feeding my cow for the year. Bull ate €600 worth of meal. Testing, grooming, ai straw, transport etc.

For yer man: €600 for feeding the calf's mother. €1500 to buy the dairy cow which didn't go back in calf and got very poor and was valued at about €800 at this stage, €600 for feeding the dairy cow. Meal €600. testing, grooming, ai straw, transport, etc.

My bull cost me about €1800. His bull cost him €3000 to get that far. He was raging mad with me for pointing out these figures to him. Anyway, it was a poor enough sale and I let mine go for €2200. He was in the ring just before mine and got the top price of the day for Limousin Bull of €2500.

He got his picture in the paper, but it cost him at least €500 for the pleasure.
Cattle are not always what they appear to be.
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but if you were to say change the system altogether and buy in replacement heifer calves for future mothers from the like of ourselves, our poorer fleckviehs will provide enough milk for 2 calves but also provide a decent calf for beefing when crossed with a BB or Charolais.
 
jcb411abuser said:
but if you were to say change the system altogether and buy in replacement heifer calves for future mothers from the like of ourselves, our poorer fleckviehs will provide enough milk for 2 calves but also provide a decent calf for beefing when crossed with a BB or Charolais.
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I'd be more interested in buying 1/4 bred dairy heifers for breeding than 1/2 bred. If you are breeding weinlings to sell off 1/2 bred dairy cows then the fine bone is very noticeable and it can take some value off your calf. You're talking about €600 vs €1000 weinlings. When someone is paying for something, you have to provide exactly what they want.

On the flip side, I certainly would be happy enough to be breeding cattle of 1/2 dairy cows if i was finishing all of my own stock myself.
 
new_arrival said:
sell off the cow or finish

sold five bull weanlings today , all are by a limousin bull and angus cows who are out of british fresian cows , plus a handful of hereford cows also out of fresian cows

lot 1 = LMX = born feb 15th 2014 - weight 440 kg = sale price = 1160

lot 2 = LMX = born feb 17 th 2014 - weight 450 kg = sale price = 1140

lot 3 = LMX = born april 10 th 2014 - weight 430 kg = sale price = 1060

lot 4 = LMX = born april 25th 2014 - weight 410 kg = sale price = 980

lot 5 = LMX = born march 30th 2014 - weight 430 kg = sale price = 1000

that works out @ 1068 per head @ an average weight of 432 kg which is equal to 2.472 per kg , slightly disapointing as 2.50 is where you want to be getting at the very least in the current market


i worked out that had i received an average of 800 euro per head when they were weaned of the cow , i would be only 68 euro per head worse off than selling today , these lads ate around 200 euro worth of meal and silage each

they were good cattle but clearly had plenty of angus genetics , the lesson for me is , their is no point in selling cattle in between off the cow and finishing , you pick one or the other , otherwise you fall in between two stools

i would imagine the same principal applies to those guys who sell store bullocks in the spring

ive five bulls left to sell ( slightly younger on average ) but will now finish them no later than august i hope
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I reckon i'd make most money out of the suckler game if i could sell all my offspring @ €1000 at less than a year old, as has been said your bloody dreaming if you think you'd get them to 1700. I think you've done really well actually.
 
marco said:
I reckon i'd make most money out of the suckler game if i could sell all my offspring @ €1000 at less than a year old, as has been said your bloody dreaming if you think you'd get them to 1700. I think you've done really well actually.
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with prices potentially heading for 4.50 kg by mid summer , their is no reason they could not reach that value , might take more than a bog standard diet of silage and meal however so another man who feeds a TMR might be the best to bring them forward

anyone who is not getting at least a grand for cattle between ten months and a year is not doing very much right , i only use a limousin bull and my cows are angus and hereford out of british fresian
 
new_arrival said:
anyone who is not getting at least a grand for cattle between ten months and a year is not doing very much right ,
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That's a very sweeping statement, sure you can blow up an animal with concentrate and have him at 400 + kg at ten months but as a buyer of yearling bullocks for grass that is the last thing I'd be interested in, the market for that type of animal is the intensive feeder, in marts local to me that type of animal makes less/kg than the animal with decent frame and the potential to gain weight cheaply off grass only.
 
new_arrival said:
with prices potentially heading for 4.50 kg by mid summer , their is no reason they could not reach that value , might take more than a bog standard diet of silage and meal however so another man who feeds a TMR might be the best to bring them forward

anyone who is not getting at least a grand for cattle between ten months and a year is not doing very much right , i only use a limousin bull and my cows are angus and hereford out of british fresian
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I love the comment about 4.50 in the summer, we all heard 4.20 by Christmas and look where that ended up at.

As Spanner said zero interest in those type of cattle here, they would simply melt when out grazing.
 
I would not be surprised if we see a drop in prices over the next few months, I would not be buying cattle today expecting a base of €4.50.
 
new_arrival said:
anyone who is not getting at least a grand for cattle between ten months and a year is not doing very much right , i only use a limousin bull and my cows are angus and hereford out of british fresian
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Can you show me where im going to get 1000 plus for ten month old black n white bulls from?last load that went they were average around 675, blues were 840ish
 
slurryboy said:
Can you show me where im going to get 1000 plus for ten month old black n white bulls from?last load that went they were average around 675, blues were 840ish
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well we are hardly discusing holstiens here , now are we :rolleyes:
 
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