zero grazing
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grassgreen
Well-Known Member
works out very expenseve. not easy to manage to have it done every day .but if Quality of grass is good solids should be ok
bruceythom
Well-Known Member
I've done it on my own farm on and off, but as I'm not yet tight for space on the grazing block, I usually move other animals to out farms when I'm short on grass, I can see myself doing more of it in the future though.
I'm picking up grass for a farmer with 160 cows. Have brought in grass to him for half of the summer. It's not exactly zero grazing, but it's accounting for approx half of the cows diet with the rest being grazed grass and a small bit of concentrates. He'd have to carry less cows otherwise.
We'll be doing up the figures between us to solve a row that broke out at our "discussion" group shortly.
Personally I think that if the grass is grazable....graze it. However in this man's case, and your case, the maths has to be better than cutting, drawing and feeding silage, particularly when you consider that kgs of milk solids go up when zero grazing, and fall when on silage.
Teagasc don't have any research done on this as it involves machinery and they'd come out in a rash if they were to start an engine. It's not comparable to grazing grass IMO, that's the cheapest way to produce milk, but in comparison to silage (and if you want to really make it expensive add in a diet feeder) it's a far cry better.
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I'm picking up grass for a farmer with 160 cows. Have brought in grass to him for half of the summer. It's not exactly zero grazing, but it's accounting for approx half of the cows diet with the rest being grazed grass and a small bit of concentrates. He'd have to carry less cows otherwise.
We'll be doing up the figures between us to solve a row that broke out at our "discussion" group shortly.
Personally I think that if the grass is grazable....graze it. However in this man's case, and your case, the maths has to be better than cutting, drawing and feeding silage, particularly when you consider that kgs of milk solids go up when zero grazing, and fall when on silage.
Teagasc don't have any research done on this as it involves machinery and they'd come out in a rash if they were to start an engine. It's not comparable to grazing grass IMO, that's the cheapest way to produce milk, but in comparison to silage (and if you want to really make it expensive add in a diet feeder) it's a far cry better.
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Knockmulliner
Well-Known Member
Just started, 13 acres of silage on out farm 3 miles from home, using a front mower and silage waggon. Grass scarce on home platform so feeding cut grass after milking at buffer feeding barrier, when they want to cows go back to the paddock. II haven't the pproportion worked out yet. I have a friend who does this with a front mower and a baler. I think fresh feeding of grass at this stage in the year is a better option than ensiling as grass sugars can be low and have resulted in poor preservation in my experience, though probably not this year given the weather. As a matter interest I will check the sugar levels and post them.
jcb411abuser
Well-Known Member
silage all the way, zero grazing is too unstable and compaction is higher in zero grazing systems
bruceythom
Well-Known Member
Unstable? How? Surely It's more "stable" than silage as you're not worried about fermentation acidosis etc?
Compaction? That's always going to be an issue, however I brought my cows in last year during the dreadful weather and cut the grass and brought it in to them instead as the cows were doing more harm than the machinery. I'm a big instigator of grazing grass, and keeping milk production simple and cheap, but there is definately a good argument for buffer feeding grass with grass.
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T
Treemover
Guest
It has a place, but just like the machines used to make silage, I just don't understand how some can say how zero grazing can lift yields?
If our cows go out to our paddocks over the next 4 weeks and go back in yields; I don't understand how cutting similar grass will lift yields ( when upping concentrate and feeding silage does)
I can see it extending the grass platform, but there does come a time when both stock and machinery is best left off land.
Everybody tells me the lift yields, butter fat and protein; but if a guy that had plenty of grass in the paddocks said the concept worked over grazing I'd like to know more, over a person that had no grass and was zero Grazing from outside the grazing platform.
I'm open to knowing more, but I don't believe much of the hype so far?
If our cows go out to our paddocks over the next 4 weeks and go back in yields; I don't understand how cutting similar grass will lift yields ( when upping concentrate and feeding silage does)
I can see it extending the grass platform, but there does come a time when both stock and machinery is best left off land.
Everybody tells me the lift yields, butter fat and protein; but if a guy that had plenty of grass in the paddocks said the concept worked over grazing I'd like to know more, over a person that had no grass and was zero Grazing from outside the grazing platform.
I'm open to knowing more, but I don't believe much of the hype so far?
bruceythom
Well-Known Member
It does lift yields, genuinely. I think it's a combination of the cows eating a fill beyond what they'd eat when grazing because of the effort involved and because they use up less energy in eating their fill in such a short space of time without taking a step as opposed to grazing. If a guy had plenty of grass in a paddock, I'd say he'd be mad to zero graze it over grazing it.
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jcb411abuser
Well-Known Member
it will lift yields, cow will have ample feed infront of them and waste minimal energy foraging, easier access to water etc etc.
T
Treemover
Guest
Yes but zero grazing is extra capital, extra time, diesel and your tied to it, as you don't have an alternative. By that I mean if the zero grazer breaks down, you need to get it running as that grass needs to get shifted.
But zero grazing has a cost per day. I'd say €100 min; and to recoup that's a fair bit of milk.
Let's look at our farm as an example. Our silage ground is out of reach of cows grazing. There's regrowth but it's destined for our dry stock.
We have grass ahead of cows and last week we finished our last cut but I purposely left grass for the cows to graze as these fields were within reach and this recent weather suits cows out.
Winter is coming and once the overnight frost and rain; daylight will decline, growth, dry matter protein etc will fall. Grass alone won't sustain the cow, so why will zero grazing at that point in time?
I totally get how zg suits farmers that need an extended platform. But I'm not convinced that it's a system for every dairy farmer.
I'm far from an expert, but I would have thought silage made from good grass in the summer, has to be better than wet grass, sodden in the coming weeks?
But zero grazing has a cost per day. I'd say €100 min; and to recoup that's a fair bit of milk.
Let's look at our farm as an example. Our silage ground is out of reach of cows grazing. There's regrowth but it's destined for our dry stock.
We have grass ahead of cows and last week we finished our last cut but I purposely left grass for the cows to graze as these fields were within reach and this recent weather suits cows out.
Winter is coming and once the overnight frost and rain; daylight will decline, growth, dry matter protein etc will fall. Grass alone won't sustain the cow, so why will zero grazing at that point in time?
I totally get how zg suits farmers that need an extended platform. But I'm not convinced that it's a system for every dairy farmer.
I'm far from an expert, but I would have thought silage made from good grass in the summer, has to be better than wet grass, sodden in the coming weeks?
bruceythom
Well-Known Member
I agree, it's only going to benefit farmers that are tight on the grazing platform.
However, grass is approx 80-87% DMD, so despite the grass becoming sodden at this time of the year, it's still better than any silage you could have made.
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T
Treemover
Guest
Well that blows my theory on silage verses zero grazer? Is this the case all year round, ie nov, dec, jan?
For us, keeping on grass makes better cheese- which swings in favour of a zero grazer?
But I remember a few years back zero grazing and the cows kept dropping til they got silage, and rocketed back up??
Looks like I might have this arseways!
For us, keeping on grass makes better cheese- which swings in favour of a zero grazer?
But I remember a few years back zero grazing and the cows kept dropping til they got silage, and rocketed back up??
Looks like I might have this arseways!
bruceythom
Well-Known Member
Well I don't like differing with you, but do you remember after the real heavy frost that all the grass in the fields was burnt into what can only be described as wet hay? Teagasc tested this grass in Feb and found it to be 75% DMD.
My take on it is if the grass is grazable, graze it. If you cant graze it, then zero graze it, if you can't do that then feed them silage.
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scottie
Well-Known Member
Completely agree with ya there Brucey, cows should only be zero grazed where grazing is not possible. Is in the shoulder months or when grass gets scarce on the grazing block.
jcb411abuser
Well-Known Member
which is why you should cut silage 6 times a year;)
jcb411abuser
Well-Known Member
silage is a far better system than zero grazing, far less time cutting the grass, least amount of compaction than any other system, highest grass yield per acre of any other system, more control of feed than any other system.
bruceythom
Well-Known Member
For buffer feeding during the grazing period, zero grazing is the way to go IMO, Silage cuts yields and solids and is not all rosey with time either. It's takes about 3 times longer for them to eat it which means the cows are on concrete for a lot longer which is time consuming and unhealthy. The silage has to be cut, baled, wrapped, drew in, stacked, opened again, and fed out, I'd argue that a wagon that picks up and feeds out about 10 bales worth in half an hour or less is less time consuming.
You've said yourself that cutting grass lighter results in higher yields as you'd be doing with zero grazing.
I'm not advocating zero grazing over grazing I want to be very clear on that here, but as far as I can see, it's the best way to buffer feed when there's a shortage as Diesel was pointing out.
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jcb411abuser
Well-Known Member
i propose silage as a viable alternative to both grazing and zero grazing, especially when land is at all a limiting factor.
Totally chasing your tail in my view, if land is limiting, why bother expanding, can you not just stick with whatever cow numbers that block can hold, and make that as efficient as possible.
bruceythom
Well-Known Member
Yea, that is a good point, and to be honest, I won't argue with you as I would say it's six of one, half a dozen of the other. When you hit the max herd size that your land can take, it's time to ask some serious questions, however, any moderately stocked farmer will have to buffer feed from time to time, this is where this buffer feeding grass comes in IMO.
@Jcb 411 abuser, silage is not an economical alternative to grazing grass that's there to be grazed.
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How much is a ZG setup? I can certainly see your point of view Bruce, of any of the uses of ZR, buffer feeding is about the only one that makes sense in the Irish grass system, however I think you'd struggle to justify the capital cost. Perhaps if you pooled with afew farmers, or a contractor had one? I myself would just probably take the hit, and order in nuts. Fed in the parlour, end of story. (Ok as you's can probably tell by now, I'm very anti-machinery ha, I'll do anything but waste the day doing circles around a field ha!)
bruceythom
Well-Known Member
I really couldn't see any farmer justifying the set up for ZG. I myself have a silage wagon which, when buying, we did not even consider zero grazing. I pick up silage for hire as well as my own, and last year started this buffer feeding game, I am also doing it for a farmer here who lost the lease of grazing ground and is tight on grass around the parlour, but has land away from it. If I had one more customer the same, I would be able to justify a front mower I reckon. It's a job for a contractor IMO, send a text and the grass is in front of the cows.
