Cover Crops 3.0

Oakley said:
Yes tried it already but would rate stubble turnips/forage rape as much better feeding. The brassica crops can be grazed right through the winter up until mid febuary before they think of going into stem extension, the westerwolds will try to go to seed before December so you will find it hard to get it all grazed before this happens, then you'll be short of grass through dec and Jan waiting for it to go grow back.
If it goes to seed it will persist in the field for years to come, Pacifica and falcon control it but control in a crop of barley could be a lot more difficult.
The seed is a lot more expensive than brassica seed.
On a plus side it grew a massive root structure and it was like ploughing a ley after it so from a soil benefit point of view it would be positive. We cut most of it for silage in 2018/2019 and in hindsight were blessed with the weather for machinery to travel. I wont be trying it again as in a normal winter you could really tear a field assunder trying to take the crop out
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I usually do rape but I find with usual late sowing from late harvests it never does much, would Westwolds yield that bit better if sown mid August than rape ?
 
gone said:
Understood, but if sowing in mid August don't depend on any increase in yield over aftergrass, it will be more usable through the winter but no big bonus yield.
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the plan was to sow it now and be able to graze it in september and hope to graze any regrowth again in early spring. I'm just not experienced enough to trust that it would supplement for the loss of second cut that I'll be relying on.
 
Sheebadog said:
Squarrosum clover planted in December.
Will probably ensilé next week if we get the time.
To the left of the pic there’s a line of lesser green color, that’s where we came back at Xmas time to finish the field...it seems to have the same bulk, nodulation etc but the color is markedly different. Less N released?
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CC was ensiled on the first week of May, estimated at 4.4tDM/ha. Then 30t/ha of fresh fym. Planted 20th May with 50kg of DAP (18-46-0) placed by the seed. Photo today.
 

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Sunflowers planted into CC of clover and vetch. CC was disced twice and ploughed down. No fym, no artificial fert, just weed spray and close the gate. Rotation is (CC) maize, wwheat, wbarley, CC, sunflowers, CC +fym and back into maize. Pic #1.

Pic #2.
Same type of rotation, same kind of land. Wheat that wasn’t worth going forward with was disced and 30t/ha of well composted fym applied before ploughing. It also got 50kg/ha of DAP.
 

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Both sides of the pole had a CC of clover. On the left the CC was removed, on the right it was left in place and ploughed down. It’s not so evident from the photo because I’d to stand on the bonnet of the Jeep, but the parcel on the right is much higher and dead even. Both goth 40t/ha of fym in 2018 and nothing since. No fert applied.
 

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Pic #1. Planted after removing a CC of clover and vetch.

Pic #2. Same variety planted the same day but after a failed crop of wbarley.
 

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DD maize in land that is no-till for 7or 8yrs. Pic #1 had just weeds and crap on it before drilling.
Pic #2 had CC of beans and vetch.

I know that both are crap but one probably won’t be harvested...
 

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Ozzy Scott said:
That's fair drastic. Shows the benefits of holding onto and fixing nitrogen
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I honestly don’t see any benefit whatsoever using non-fixing CC mixes on land. Yes they will aid subsequent tillage operations, and help soil erosion, but there’s no real benefit to me as a farmer.

The EU only want non-fixing CC mixes to mop up any stray nitrogen but they’d have to pay me to grow them. The only *real* and quantifiable benefit I’ve seen are from good clover and vetch mixes.
I know I’m going against the grain in saying that, but it’s my experience on this land....
 
Do you graze much if any of your covers?
Sheebadog said:
I honestly don’t see any benefit whatsoever using non-fixing CC mixes on land. Yes they will aid subsequent tillage operations, and help soil erosion, but there’s no real benefit to me as a farmer.

The EU only want non-fixing CC mixes to mop up any stray nitrogen but they’d have to pay me to grow them. The only *real* and quantifiable benefit I’ve seen are from good clover and vetch mixes.
I know I’m going against the grain in saying that, but it’s my experience on this land....
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Squarrosum clover @Sheebadog ? What Seeding rate on its own ?
balansa clover is a tiny seed compared to say crimson clover which is normal size we’ll say
How does Squarrosum Compare
What would your ground temp be in winter
If it likes wet cold winter conditions ??? Well it might just suit Ireland ?
 
marco said:
Do you graze much if any of your covers?
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No we don’t. No fencing or water etc. Anyhow I think it’s going against the principle of CC to graze it with livestock...I’d lose out on biomass, fixing of nitrogen, soil structure building etc etc. Some guys are bringing in graziers with sheep, but I fail to see the benefit.
 
Hardysplicer said:
Squarrosum clover @Sheebadog ? What Seeding rate on its own ?
balansa clover is a tiny seed compared to say crimson clover which is normal size we’ll say
How does Squarrosum Compare
What would your ground temp be in winter
If it likes wet cold winter conditions ??? Well it might just suit Ireland ?
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Seeding rate is 30kg/ha on it’s own, but I wouldn’t go past 15kg and include the likes of vetch with it. It’s about the same size seed as crimson.
We can get a temperate or continental type winter. Most years we get a fortnight or so of -8 to -16, but not last year, we got a wet Irish kind of winter.
Of all the cover crops I think it would work very well with winter vetch in a mix, for Irish conditions.
 
Sheebadog said:
Seeding rate is 30kg/ha on it’s own, but I wouldn’t go past 15kg and include the likes of vetch with it. It’s about the same size seed as crimson.
We can get a temperate or continental type winter. Most years we get a fortnight or so of -8 to -16, but not last year, we got a wet Irish kind of winter.
Of all the cover crops I think it would work very well with winter vetch in a mix, for Irish conditions.
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I’ll try some, as fai as I know winter vetch is hairy vetch and most vetch types we get here are spring vetches and don’t suit late sowing
I’ll find some winter to mix
 
Hardysplicer said:
I’ll try some, as fai as I know winter vetch is hairy vetch and most vetch types we get here are spring vetches and don’t suit late sowing
I’ll find some winter to mix
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http://www.fiches.arvalis-infos.fr/couverts/fiche_couvert.php?id_couvert=500&dept=85#fr

We use this vetch. It also has an agressive growth rate so it can hold its place with the clover. It’s root ball system works well with the tap root of the clover and goes plenty deep even during winter dormancy. Cold and wet are no bother to it so is very winter hardy.
 
Sheebadog said:
No we don’t. No fencing or water etc. Anyhow I think it’s going against the principle of CC to graze it with livestock...I’d lose out on biomass, fixing of nitrogen, soil structure building etc etc. Some guys are bringing in graziers with sheep, but I fail to see the benefit.
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Sheebadog said:
http://www.fiches.arvalis-infos.fr/couverts/fiche_couvert.php?id_couvert=500&dept=85#fr

We use this vetch. It also has an agressive growth rate so it can hold its place with the clover. It’s root ball system works well with the tap root of the clover and goes plenty deep even during winter dormancy. Cold and wet are no bother to it so is very winter hardy.
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Do you gave a English name for it?my French isn't very good
 
nashmach said:
What's in the mix Bog Man?
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It was some left over from last year.

Summer cover
Mustard 2.5
Tillage radish 3
Phacelia 1
Buckwheat 6
12.5kg/Ha
2 Ha pack


Winter Cover
Tillage Radish 4
Phacelia 2
Buckwheat 4
Linseed 2
Balansa clover 0.5
12.5kg/Ha
2 Ha pack
 
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