the journal this week

@Ozzy Scott you are correct re the stupidity of preventing farmers from spreading slurry in late September and then allowing them to spread in late January. Makes no sense to me from a pollution perspective, as I would expect chance of run off would be much worse in January / February than September.
just look at the water data and see when the greatest pollution loading is at, its not the months of September and October.

This extra month will hit me hard as we have about 20 - 24 weeks storage, but would always have the tank empties to the floor on the 15th of October, so it would take me through to at least the 15st of March without needing to spread. I would have a good few cattle off the land during the 15th of sept to 15th of Oct period, that I would usually spread their slurry fresh before the closed period, now this is going to have to be stored, but my storage will run out by the 15th of Feb, this means I will have to avail of any half opportunity in Late Jan early Feb to get out about 6 weeks worth of Slurry. Im still well within the storage requirements by law.

closing the spreading period on the 15th of September also goes against all of what I have learned over the last 5 years, that from a biological point of view for the soil, slurry should be spread as late as possible in Autumn and allow the soil to digest it over winter. Constant spreading during the season is having big Potassium issues with luxury uptake and causing unneeded animal deaths
 
just look at the water data and see when the greatest pollution loading is at, its not the months of September and October.

This extra month will hit me hard as we have about 20 - 24 weeks storage, but would always have the tank empties to the floor on the 15th of October, so it would take me through to at least the 15st of March without needing to spread. I would have a good few cattle off the land during the 15th of sept to 15th of Oct period, that I would usually spread their slurry fresh before the closed period, now this is going to have to be stored, but my storage will run out by the 15th of Feb, this means I will have to avail of any half opportunity in Late Jan early Feb to get out about 6 weeks worth of Slurry. Im still well within the storage requirements by law.

closing the spreading period on the 15th of September also goes against all of what I have learned over the last 5 years, that from a biological point of view for the soil, slurry should be spread as late as possible in Autumn and allow the soil to digest it over winter. Constant spreading during the season is having big Potassium issues with luxury uptake and causing unneeded animal deaths
The issue with slurry late in the year is that P is easily leeched out with rainfall. The best time to apply P is in the spring which gives enough P to support grass growth and easily available N as well, especially as soils dry out.

Late season slurry has a difficulty as chemical reactions get faster as conditions get warmer and slower as conditions cool so a good share of the P won't be bound to the soil and the N won't be absorbed as well. Both will be prone to being washed across soils into drains and rivers because of that. The same risk is there in spring but rising temperatures means rising amounts are absorbed and bound to the soil.
 
If they pulled up the lads taking the piss it would be a start, instead of making it harder for us all. There is to much slurry going out at one time imo as soon as the closed period is up and extending it I can't see it having much of a effect.

Thats it exactly, maybe only 20% of farmers flouting the laws and now were all gonna suffer!
 
Tbh it seems as if they are throwing everything at it in order to keep the derogation. Water quality is its main remit and the issue is improvements today may not show for number of years, aside from the fact most villages and some large towns have serious issues.
Its hard to know where to go really. Have halved my debt per cow over the last number of years but need to spend again in the yard regardless of cow numbers but if dero goes I won't have the milk out the gate to pay for it.
 
The issue with slurry late in the year is that P is easily leeched out with rainfall. The best time to apply P is in the spring which gives enough P to support grass growth and easily available N as well, especially as soils dry out.

Late season slurry has a difficulty as chemical reactions get faster as conditions get warmer and slower as conditions cool so a good share of the P won't be bound to the soil and the N won't be absorbed as well. Both will be prone to being washed across soils into drains and rivers because of that. The same risk is there in spring but rising temperatures means rising amounts are absorbed and bound to the soil.
Unless applying across major slopes, P will easily bind to soil. P concentrations in water are a very localised problem, so policy shouldn't be country wide. N is a different kettle of fish. The time period between the 15th of Sept and 15th of Oct is a very safe time to be applying nutrients. 30% of our grass growth happens after the 15th of sept.
 
Unless applying across major slopes, P will easily bind to soil. P concentrations in water are a very localised problem, so policy shouldn't be country wide. N is a different kettle of fish. The time period between the 15th of Sept and 15th of Oct is a very safe time to be applying nutrients. 30% of our grass growth happens after the 15th of sept.
So what different steps should the department be proposing?
Imv the expansion of new and larger dairy herds is causing a problem in certain areas , mostly southeast as their soils are easier to leach from.this is where the water quality is testing poorer.
Why bring in countrywide laws and talk about suckler reduction when it's a localized problem and sector specific.
 
I’ve no issue with the new rules bar the fact that we need to store all the parlour washings for 8 weeks, I’m not talking about stuff washed from where the cows stand in parlour or collecting yard but the water from washing the plant and bull tank, modern larger parlours with autowash systems use a phenomenal amount of water. Might not be as much of an issue for spring milk guys with herds dry but autumn calving herds milking all
Winter will gather serious volumes of water.
I can’t see merchants or coops registering fertiliser purchases unless they are paid to by the dept.
 
I’ve no issue with the new rules bar the fact that we need to store all the parlour washings for 8 weeks, I’m not talking about stuff washed from where the cows stand in parlour or collecting yard but the water from washing the plant and bull tank, modern larger parlours with autowash systems use a phenomenal amount of water. Might not be as much of an issue for spring milk guys with herds dry but autumn calving herds milking all
Winter will gather serious volumes of water.
I can’t see merchants or coops registering fertiliser purchases unless they are paid to by the dept.
Spot-on. Serious issue for winter milk lads
 
So what different steps should the department be proposing?
Imv the expansion of new and larger dairy herds is causing a problem in certain areas , mostly southeast as their soils are easier to leach from.this is where the water quality is testing poorer.
Why bring in countrywide laws and talk about suckler reduction when it's a localized problem and sector specific.
rules will make no difference around here anyway unless they start putting clamps on the slurry tankers . its the lads that are sticking to the rules are the only ones losing out.
 
Spot-on. Serious issue for winter milk lads
How is it a serious issue for winter milk lads? I missed the journal today I thought it affected everyone the same?

Sorry I reread the previous post and see it’s just the washing of the plant and collecting that water is the issue
 
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rules will make no difference around here anyway unless they start putting clamps on the slurry tankers . its the lads that are sticking to the rules are the only ones losing out.
This X1000.

I’m assuming that it’s the same everywhere but where I’m from the pipe system has made a joke of the closed period.
You’ll see on the road most days flying round some lads boasting that the were out with the pipe system everyday except 5or 6 days in the closed period.

It’s unfair on the lads who play by the rules and have enough storage.
 
The storage period been moved to the 15th of Sept will affect a lot of people because the dept take in to account all the cattle in your herd during that period. So say for example a farmer that sells his cattle in mid Oct . These will b taking in account even though they will not be in the shed.
 
It's going to be along time storing from mid sept to march early April with cows going through a shed into the parlour.instead of trimming a month in the back end they could have put them month on in the spring.
Scandolous the videos that were doing the rounds last Jan / Feb on some of the ground that was been spread.if that wasn't a major pollution treath nothing will be
 
Contractor uses the pipes here to blow the slurry from my new shed to my slurry tower. Not everyone is breaking the rules with the pipes

Your case would be the minority. Most lads are out spreading on the land with the pipes.

Just out of interest how do they get the slurry up into the tower. Is there a connection at the bottom with a double valve to let slurry in or is there a steel pipe on the side of the tower or does the contractor lift one of his own pipes up the side of it? Never seen it done but heard of it being done
 
It's going to be along time storing from mid sept to march early April with cows going through a shed into the parlour.instead of trimming a month in the back end they could have put them month on in the spring.
Scandolous the videos that were doing the rounds last Jan / Feb on some of the ground that was been spread.if that wasn't a major pollution treath nothing will be
We haven't broken the bans here though at times it's tempting.

It's permitted but wrong to spread in February during poor weather but it's not permitted but correct to spread during dry periods of growthy weather at the start of January.
 
Thats it exactly, maybe only 20% of farmers flouting the laws and now were all gonna suffer!
Id say 20% is being conservative. Had a large scale slurry contractor in twice at work. The lads took great pride in sharing that they only took Christmas day and new year's Day off as they were so busy at slurry
 
These rule changes all seem very blunt instruments to me. With the remote monitoring capability they have these days, they can see to within a foot where slurry has been spread. Surely with good weather forecasting, a system could be come up with where you could have a green light for spreading in certain areas at certain times of the year. And monitor that and throw the effing book at anyone who abuses it. There are weeks in August that are wetter than weeks in November. Just seems very blunt and dumbass. The idea to subsidise protected urea is crayon colouring book policy. There are other ways to reduce nitrogen use, that are simple and cultural, like clover and mss. Subsidising slurry seperation would be a better thing surely. Sometimes I think there has been a dept. brain drain, or they are struggling to keep up.
 
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