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Mucky if your fit to buy a 325kg weanling for €700, that’s €2.15/kg.
Keep them for a year and gain 325kg and sell for for €2.23/kg at 650kg.
That’s a gross margin of €750/year.
Sell the suckler cows and go at that full time.
Even it you only got them to today’s weights of 575kg in a year and they came into €1250, that’s €550, a good margin also.
If those those returns can be achieved, I can’t understand why you’d bother calving suckler cows.
You’d surely carry one and half of them,
in place of a cow and a calf. Less work and more margin, lighter stock to carry on your ground too.

It would surely make more money than suckling?
I recall a reply that you made to something that I posted last year when i wasnt happy with the prices that i was getting for weanlings in which you said that if I wasn't happy then I should change my system and truth be told I respected your advice and promised myself, based on what you said, that I wasn't going to sell cattle for a price that I wasn't happy with anymore. Its not a reflection on any finisher or any buyer that ever bought an animal that I produced. Its a reflection of me trying to make more of what I have and having no option but to try to make some type of living out of it. And don't get me wrong, I'm doing what I want to be doing but I want to make it sustainable because selling animals that I make little or nothing on isn't sustainable and that's not a reflection of farmers, feeders or finishers that buy cattle, rather a reflection of beef prices. And maybe I won't always do things right, but as the old saying goes, a man can't keep doing the same thing and expect different results. I find this place and people like yourself a great resource. People posting replies such as @Peter did this morning about finishing continental cattle at heavier weights gets me thinking about how I can change and adapt they system that I have in order to get more from it. Without experience, I rely on agri media and advisory for to set out a plan - in fairness, agri media and advisory appear to me to advise that the way forward is to am for 350kg carcass at as young of age as possible.

At home last year we sat down to set out a plan which saw us cut cow numbers. We have a certain number of cows that will produce calves that leave reasonable profit year on year and we will continue with them. But for other cattle, logistically and time wise, we go with easier calving bulls because we can't always be with them when calving, we go with easier calving bulls on heifers and we put different breeds onto cows to breed replacements.

With less cows we can keep on to the weanlings that we used to sell (often only broke even on them and sometimes lost money) and we can bring them to stores at 18 months or to slaughter. It has a whole load of advantages for us. Animals have little or no stress that they would have if they went through the mart, no weight loss as a result and no lull in thrive. Also less sickness. I'm fattening animals that I know the history of. To me, all that gives me a good advantage over buying weanlings.

Simmental bull has been very valuable to us in recent years. We have introduced a good few breeding females into the herd from him. But the truth is that they don't sell well as weanlings and even as stores they are a bit behind other continentals of the same weight. Looking at online marts over the last few weeks, I have no doubt that you'll buy reasonably good quality simmentals weanling bulls for feeding at €2.00 to €2.20 / kg on average.

To each their own but the system @ithastopay has outlined there isn't a million miles away from what we do here.

Its almost a form of extended cattle dealing. The margins can often be very good, other times not so good. You're at the mercy of the trade but if you watch the trade and hit it right you can work around it.

Hence we sold quite plain cattle in early January while the trade was good, but "we" (not me specifically) had been watching the trade and hit it just before the factories pulled the prices and the trade went back a bit.

I don't mean this the wrong way, but in terms of the Mart option I felt you had missed the boat.

If you like the sucklers then I suppose its hard to move away from them, but our labour content is very low.
 
Its not about scale here. All animals bought in here have to pay their way and leave some sort of a profit to allow me to stay in business. Any discussion on finishing cattle or buying in cattle in the mart on this forum has gone the same direction. There need to be more content posted about feeding cattle to their full potential. Feeding u grade cattle into dead weights of 350 kg would be knowing playing the wildcat card in poker imo.
It shouldn't have to be all about scale when feeding cattle, but the reality is that, margins are razor thin and the feeders with scale are commanding a nice bit better of a price than you me or mucky will ever get. The factories know where the cattle are, and if there's any slight shortage, (paying poor prices, orders to be filled,inspections, etc) It's the big feeder gets the call. Have 30 cattle here for 7.30 am tmro morning. No point in ringing me . Flat pricing ,Lucrative deals on transport ,agents fees .etc
To finish cattle profitably you would want to be able to feed low cost with by products, waste bread ,biscuits ,brewing, distilling by products ,waste or out of spec vegetables.
In this country we don't have a population big enough to generate the volume required.
 
@muckymanor
Like you we sit, talk and discuss plans, we compare cattle performance, feeding different breeds, suckler bred, dairy bred,
Hereford, Angus, calf to beef, buying weanlings, buying stores, we enjoy the beef game, we are small at it, make a small margin, for a relatively low work load, we like feeding cattle, finishing cattle, looking at good cattle and eating good steak.

We do things as best we can and we still make mistakes, there’s very little room for errors in finishing cattle.
There’s been beef cattle here all my life, I grew up with it, my father fed them, my uncle fed them, there’s not a day goes by I won’t be talking with someone about beef.

Everyone will have their own opinion, on how best to make money from beef, many of them are not making much money out of it, not much point in taking their advice, I’d be looking at what the best finishers are doing and why they are doing it.

You have a clear advantage with quality home bred stock, against those of us going out to buy store cattle, transport to and from the mart, mart commissions and loss of thrive, hard to put a figure on it, I’d suggest it could be €50 or more.
That will go a a long way towards balancing the higher feed costs you will have based on your location.

Im glad your trying something different and pushing yourself, now you need to decide if you will push the cattle harder and finish them to their full potential, going halfway, option 2 and option 3, you’d be as far on selling them as stores.

Id pay no heed to to what Agri media or advisors are saying about beef, very few of them are making a living out of it.
 
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I'm of the opinion that guys like me with sucklers should get as much as we can out of them growth wise on grass, get them started on meal, condition them abit then sell in the mart. Let the men that specialises in finishing get on with it, and let them deal with the factories. I'll probably have a different opinion tomorrow 🤠
 
Pen of simmental bullocks here (all born March to July 2019). 550 to 580kg.

What to do?

1. Sell at the mart now (Worth about €2.10 to €2.20 per kg) ?

2. Let to grass and kill in may & June?

3. Feed for 60 days and slaughter (9/10 will kill U Grade)?

What would you do?
I find that simmentals won's sell in the mart as well as LM or CH of similar weights, but when I slaughter them, 9 out of 10 will kill a U grade.
If I let them to grass, it would mean extra fertilizer, and may mean selling some younger store cattle to leave enough space.
I have plenty of good quality silage.

I sold these today along with another pen of limousin bullocks. I had been feeding a 15% nut at 4kg per day since January 1st along with good silage. Had thought about upping it but was trying to balance costs with projected returns.

I weighed on 30 December. Changed nut to a higher maize content but still 15% at the beginning of February. So 90 days feeding to now. I had 1 lad in the group that's 30 months in 3 weeks time. The rest are all under 24 months. The oldest lad had the worst weight gain at 85kg in 90 days. The limousins all did around the 100kg. One of the simmentals did 120kg - they all did over 100kg in the 90 days.

My best simmental was 620kg and made €1510. My best limousin was 685kg and made €1685. Simmentals averaged €2.25 and limousins were heavier but averaged €2.39.

Very happy with all of that
 
I thought of this thread today after a farmer was looking at a group of cattle that Im finishing and suggested that I sell the entire group the one day to the factory.
I dont finish big numbers of cattle and I prefer to sell them little and often as they come fit. As of today these cattle are feeding for 80 days. My plan is to pick off the best as the come fit and to leave the rest there until they become fit. I dont think that theres any point in selling underfit cattle to the factory. Or am I wrong???
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I thought of this thread today after a farmer was looking at a group of cattle that Im finishing and suggested that I sell the entire group the one day to the factory.
I dont finish big numbers of cattle and I prefer to sell them little and often as they come fit. As of today these cattle are feeding for 80 days. My plan is to pick off the best as the come fit and to leave the rest there until they become fit. I dont think that theres any point in selling underfit cattle to the factory. Or am I wrong???
View attachment 90088
If you can secure a flat price then letting the group go can make sense for those type of stock but I hear this is getting much more difficult. Although cows in numbers are making terrific money at the moment apparently.

Other than that try to get the best fat and grade you can and let them on as they come right would be my theory
 
I sold these today along with another pen of limousin bullocks. I had been feeding a 15% nut at 4kg per day since January 1st along with good silage. Had thought about upping it but was trying to balance costs with projected returns.

I weighed on 30 December. Changed nut to a higher maize content but still 15% at the beginning of February. So 90 days feeding to now. I had 1 lad in the group that's 30 months in 3 weeks time. The rest are all under 24 months. The oldest lad had the worst weight gain at 85kg in 90 days. The limousins all did around the 100kg. One of the simmentals did 120kg - they all did over 100kg in the 90 days.

My best simmental was 620kg and made €1510. My best limousin was 685kg and made €1685. Simmentals averaged €2.25 and limousins were heavier but averaged €2.39.

Very happy with all of that
Was that to the mart or the factory?
 
If you get flat price fire away ,I know local lad with handy number got flat prices last july ,his underfinished wh bullock averaged over E4 including wh bonus ,I got a few overage fr off with him and got 3.65 flat p+2+ I think .I had a younger fr and kept him on and he still only came into the same money in October .If the bus is going get on it!!!
 
I thought of this thread today after a farmer was looking at a group of cattle that Im finishing and suggested that I sell the entire group the one day to the factory.
I dont finish big numbers of cattle and I prefer to sell them little and often as they come fit. As of today these cattle are feeding for 80 days. My plan is to pick off the best as the come fit and to leave the rest there until they become fit. I dont think that theres any point in selling underfit cattle to the factory. Or am I wrong???
View attachment 90088
How many is in the group ?
 
If you can secure a flat price then letting the group go can make sense for those type of stock but I hear this is getting much more difficult. Although cows in numbers are making terrific money at the moment apparently.

Other than that try to get the best fat and grade you can and let them on as they come right would be my theory

If you get flat price fire away ,I know local lad with handy number got flat prices last july ,his underfinished wh bullock averaged over E4 including wh bonus ,I got a few overage fr off with him and got 3.65 flat p+2+ I think .I had a younger fr and kept him on and he still only came into the same money in October .If the bus is going get on it!!!

It will be the grid for them unfortunaly. I would have little or no chance getting a flat price for those sort of cattle.

How many is in the group ?

42 in that group. Average age 25/26 months.
 
It will be the grid for them unfortunaly. I would have little or no chance getting a flat price for those sort of cattle.



42 in that group. Average age 25/26 months.
I thought of this thread today after a farmer was looking at a group of cattle that Im finishing and suggested that I sell the entire group the one day to the factory.
I dont finish big numbers of cattle and I prefer to sell them little and often as they come fit. As of today these cattle are feeding for 80 days. My plan is to pick off the best as the come fit and to leave the rest there until they become fit. I dont think that theres any point in selling underfit cattle to the factory. Or am I wrong???
View attachment 90088

It will be the grid for them unfortunaly. I would have little or no chance getting a flat price for those sort of cattle.



42 in that group. Average age 25/26 months.

I kill less than 10 cattle per year , and often none , sell in the mart instead .
In 2020 I killed 8 bullocks , a mixture of Lm and 2 Fr . The Friesans had carcasses within 3 kg of one another , but because 1 hadn't enough cover , I ended up with €112 less for him .
So my advice , for all its worth , is to only kill the fit cattle , as they come fit .
Factories will assault you , if they get any chance , so try not to give them the opportunity.
 
I thought of this thread today after a farmer was looking at a group of cattle that Im finishing and suggested that I sell the entire group the one day to the factory.
I dont finish big numbers of cattle and I prefer to sell them little and often as they come fit. As of today these cattle are feeding for 80 days. My plan is to pick off the best as the come fit and to leave the rest there until they become fit. I dont think that theres any point in selling underfit cattle to the factory. Or am I wrong???
View attachment 90088
Kill them when they come fit, having numbers doesnt really alter the price of cattle
 
I’d kill them all the one day. Fat cattle are scarce, you’d have a much better chance of getting a good price for 43 than for 8 or even 16 in my experience. You’d probably get a flat price too so I wouldn’t mind a few getting fat.
marketing cattle is really a numbers game.
 
Kill them as they come fit, if they’re fit they will weight and grade.
No buyer will buy cattle flat without looking at them, they’re looking at and buying cattle everyday, they won’t pay too much.
Go on the grid, the prices is the price, you’ll get on just as well bringing in a few fit cattle in a jeep trailer as a double of unfit cattle.

It’s shocking to see some of the store cattle that are brought to the factories at times.
 
Cant say I agree, once your up to a load of 15, the price wont change until a huge number.

3 drafts out of 43 would be my choice. Often after the first draft of cattle, I have seen the remainder thrive like stink, presume the bullies have been removed
That’s not my experience of factories around here,

here’s a passage from this weeks farming independent which is the way it works with our local factories

“The factories' quest for volumes of meat saw stronger suppliers of U and R grade young bulls achieve a flat price of €4/kg last week. However, those with lesser numbers are still being quoted €3.85-3.95/kg for R's and U's. O grades continue to float around the €3.70/kg mark, watch them when you're doing the deal, make sure you've got a price set in advance as not everything we think should be ends up as an R “

The factories designed the grid to have lads queuing up at the gate with jeeps and trailers with 2 or 3 cattle taking what ever pityfull price they gave them.
 
I loaded up four bullocks behind the jeep and brought them to the factory. These cattle were never going to burst any burst any scales but I am happy enough with their performance over their time on the farm here. I picked out the cattle that I thought had done all that they were going to do it so there was a bit of a difference between weights and fat scores and grades.

Bullock one hex 25 months old. O+4- 345.6 deadweight. Base price 3.92 -12 cents qps plus 20 cents qa = €4.00 on the grid.

Bullock 2. Fr 26 months old. O=3= 332.6 deadweight,base 3.92-qps+qa = 3.94 grid price.

Bullock 3. Fr 26 months old. O=3+ 322.5
3.94 on the grid.

Bullock 4. Fr 26 months old. P+3- 305.9. 3.92-30 no qa = 3.62 final price.
 
Do you think if you held on to bullock 4 on grass and kept him until 30 months he might have gained the grades to o= ,a big grade jump but he was a bit light and young enough ,even if you got him to o- you would have got 8 cents extra on the qa under 30 months
 
Do you think if you held on to bullock 4 on grass and kept him until 30 months he might have gained the grades to o= ,a big grade jump but he was a bit light and young enough ,even if you got him to o- you would have got 8 cents extra on the qa under 30 months

Its hard to say. Theres two of his comrades out on grass and another one left behind in the shed. They would be the worst of the cattle bought in the past year and always behind the rest quality wise. It will be interesting to see how they kill out in comparison.
 
I wouldn’t put any of them out to grass,once you’ve got them this far they want to be away while the price is good.

Non of the cattle in the shed will see grass again. The cattle that are out on grass atm were sorted out from the cattle I am finishing last January.
 
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