At the mart...

Ozzy Scott said:
similar here, have bought very little since Christmas bar the odd day. I cant fathom the prices, but more power to the guys giving it. thankfully didnt winter finish any cattle this year either. I know a huge amount of farmers in the same boat. You would wonder were all the money is coming from:rolleyes:
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A mass exodus from farmer winter finishing around this area too. The last of our weanling to beef continental heifers were finished 2 weeks ago, that's the end of that for us now. The figures no longer make sense.
We might finish some of our own stock in the future for cash-flow purposes, but maybe not if store prices are tempting in the Autumn.
Reduced farmer competition around the ring isn't a good thing. We already know how beef factories behave when they obtain total control of any market.
 
Theres too many hoops to jump through, a lot of people are selling in the mart and let the factories feed them themselves . Especially if you've younger cattle coming along.
 
Barrowsider said:
A mass exodus from farmer winter finishing around this area too. The last of our weanling to beef continental heifers were finished 2 weeks ago, that's the end of that for us now. The figures no longer make sense.
We might finish some of our own stock in the future for cash-flow purposes, but maybe not if store prices are tempting in the Autumn.
Reduced farmer competition around the ring isn't a good thing. We already know how beef factories behave when they obtain total control of any market.
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All these farmer finishers are gone and wont return, as it was offering such low returns in the first place for allot of work. I always advocated, that if the factories wanted to finish their own cattle during the winter they should be given as many of them as they can take as its pointless been an independent finisher. The factories will balance there own books by offering even lower returns to those that are left.

All we have to look at, is to see the way the lamb market has reacted when there isn't market manipulation in the finishing sector by the factories. Looking around a ring back when marts were open during the summer, and there were 6 factory men and god knows how many more on-line. Its a real pity to see what @muckymanor describes above when good stores of 550kgs are killed the following day, 200kgs lighter that there mature weight. This will come back to have implications as that meat would be as tough as leather without any fat.
 
The % of Irish meat going into Butgers sets the price of finished cattle. Factories are happy taking their margin without having to do packaging or marketing. Cull cows and immature steers can be fed into the system when needed.
 
muckymanor said:
I can see my icbf slaughter report and see store cattle 500 to 60kg that I sold that were killed within days of me selling them - it shows that when the pressure comes on, the factories will kill anything regardless of whether they are finished or not
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If we are to take this example of a factory killing an animal at 550kgs (275kgs deadweight for argument sake), the factory took potentially €500 out of the beef farmers returns for the beef industry (125kgs X €4, this animal would have potential to be well over 400kgs), so that they could maintain their margin which was many times smaller than this. They couldn't see past the end of their own noses, when it comes to making a shilling, and will continue to do so until there is no industry remaining.
 
Ozzy Scott said:
If we are to take this example of a factory killing an animal at 550kgs (275kgs deadweight for argument sake), the factory took potentially €500 out of the beef farmers returns for the beef industry (125kgs X €4, this animal would have potential to be well over 400kgs), so that they could maintain their margin which was many times smaller than this. They couldn't see past the end of their own noses, when it comes to making a shilling, and will continue to do so until there is no industry remaining.
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I think at this stage they will have enough cull cows and dairy beef that will be there to kill regardless of sucklers. We are in bad need of some other way to use land that is not suitable for dairy or tillage and not as permanent as forestry
 
Ozzy Scott said:
If we are to take this example of a factory killing an animal at 550kgs (275kgs deadweight for argument sake), the factory took potentially €500 out of the beef farmers returns for the beef industry (125kgs X €4, this animal would have potential to be well over 400kgs), so that they could maintain their margin which was many times smaller than this. They couldn't see past the end of their own noses, when it comes to making a shilling, and will continue to do so until there is no industry remaining.
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I wouldn't have known that they were slaughtered but for when the application opened for the exceptional aid scheme last summer. I had 6 more on it than I had killed. I had sold them in the mart on march 18th and the icbf profile told me that they had been slaughtered on march 23rd. All were simmentals from 520kg to 580kg.
 
Hereford said:
I think at this stage they will have enough cull cows and dairy beef that will be there to kill regardless of sucklers. We are in bad need of some other way to use land that is not suitable for dairy or tillage and not as permanent as forestry
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But there's great demand and great prices for weanlings and stores this year.
 
Roscrea normally hold their cattle sale on Friday , Sheep on Wednesday morning followed by weanlings in the Autumn.
This week sale was split . Cull cows , which there were 100 of , on Friday . Followed by 400 lots of heifers . Bulls today Saturday, 16 or 17 bulls , followed by 40 odd pens of bullocks.
I took 6 yearlings , grass is scarce , conacre scarcer , and insanely priced .
Bird in the hand etc .
4 Fr bullocks , 1st Feb 20 , 378 kg €700 €1.85 kg .
2 fair Lm mid Feb 20 312 kg €680 .€2.18 kg .

Cattle of 600 kg up making very big money .
 
jf 850 said:
Roscrea normally hold their cattle sale on Friday , Sheep on Wednesday morning followed by weanlings in the Autumn.
This week sale was split . Cull cows , which there were 100 of , on Friday . Followed by 400 lots of heifers . Bulls today Saturday, 16 or 17 bulls , followed by 40 odd pens of bullocks.
I took 6 yearlings , grass is scarce , conacre scarcer , and insanely priced .
Bird in the hand etc .
4 Fr bullocks , 1st Feb 20 , 378 kg €700 €1.85 kg .
2 fair Lm mid Feb 20 312 kg €680 .€2.18 kg .

Cattle of 600 kg up making very big money .
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Is it usual for them to split the sale like that? Just for a few weeks peek numbers?
 
jf 850 said:
Roscrea normally hold their cattle sale on Friday , Sheep on Wednesday morning followed by weanlings in the Autumn.
This week sale was split . Cull cows , which there were 100 of , on Friday . Followed by 400 lots of heifers . Bulls today Saturday, 16 or 17 bulls , followed by 40 odd pens of bullocks.
I took 6 yearlings , grass is scarce , conacre scarcer , and insanely priced .
Bird in the hand etc .
4 Fr bullocks , 1st Feb 20 , 378 kg €700 €1.85 kg .
2 fair Lm mid Feb 20 312 kg €680 .€2.18 kg .

Cattle of 600 kg up making very big money .
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How come there are so many heifers vs bullocks shown?
 
marco said:
Is it usual for them to split the sale like that? Just for a few weeks peek numbers?
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Splitting the sale over 2 days might happen twice or 3 times in the year .
Yard man told me that they wouldn't be able to deal with 100 cattle , which is what they were afraid of turning up , if sale all in one .
Missing a mart because of Good Friday , created a bit of a back log .


Ozzy Scott said:
How come there are so many heifers vs bullocks shown?
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I'd say fairly similar numbers of each .
Heifers start at 100 , and next lot 101 , 102 etc.
Bullocks .
No 1 , 1 A , 1 B , 1 c . And so on . Might go to M , if 1 man had 1 cattle selling as singles. There doesn't seem to be a fixed number per pen .
I was 5A and 5 B ,and there were 2 bullocks previously , belonging to someone else as plain 5 , so pen 5 consisted of 8 cattle .

I think the 100 cull cows may be a bit out of the ordinary, from what used to appear . Often saw 10 to 20 culls .
 
Sold off some heifers yesterday that I had planned to slaughter later in the summer - what's left will only get grass to finish them before 1st August.
Had a very nice full bred limousin heifer that was from a pedigree cow with fertility issues - a calf every 15 months. 620kg = €1790. She was a classy looking animal though and only 22 months old.

Had a simmental heifer out of a bunch that I had sold her comrades last september. She was 420kg at the time and I averaged €2.18. I felt that she was an ugly heifer - she had a rough head on her, so at best she would have made €915. So I said I'd keep her. She stayed out on grass until the end of november and she got a small picking of beef nuts over winter - but she was in a pen with cows, so I had to let her into the creep area where she would get 4kg twice or 3 times a week. She got to grass 60 days ago weighing 560kg. She got ~4kg of nuts per day from the lick feeder. She weighed 660kg and topped out at €1580.

The others were limousin and averaged €2.40/kg.
 
muckymanor said:
Sold off some heifers yesterday that I had planned to slaughter later in the summer - what's left will only get grass to finish them before 1st August.
Had a very nice full bred limousin heifer that was from a pedigree cow with fertility issues - a calf every 15 months. 620kg = €1790. She was a classy looking animal though and only 22 months old.

Had a simmental heifer out of a bunch that I had sold her comrades last september. She was 420kg at the time and I averaged €2.18. I felt that she was an ugly heifer - she had a rough head on her, so at best she would have made €915. So I said I'd keep her. She stayed out on grass until the end of november and she got a small picking of beef nuts over winter - but she was in a pen with cows, so I had to let her into the creep area where she would get 4kg twice or 3 times a week. She got to grass 60 days ago weighing 560kg. She got ~4kg of nuts per day from the lick feeder. She weighed 660kg and topped out at €1580.

The others were limousin and averaged €2.40/kg.
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Based on that, are you sorry you sold her comrades for 2.18 per kg? She paid well to keep her, presume the rest may have paid just as well. Allowing say 250 (being generous) for feed and wintering costs, she still left a pretty penny of profit for holding onto her for the 6 months.
 
Nashty said:
Based on that, are you sorry you sold her comrades for 2.18 per kg? She paid well to keep her, presume the rest may have paid just as well. Allowing say 250 (being generous) for feed and wintering costs, she still left a pretty penny of profit for holding onto her for the 6 months.
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It goes back to the whole simmental thing again that I have posted about before. She was 16 months in september and €915 would have meant selling her at a loss. A few exceptional simmental heifers will be bought for breeding and make good money. An ordinary one will not sell well at 9 to 18 months. It's only when they get some flesh on them that people recognise their potential. Equivalent limousin heifers were worth €100+ more than the simmentals last september.

I live and learn. It means choosing wisely what to sell and when I sell them. ie. I should have sold all of my LM heifers last september and kept onto my simmentals until now.

But the biggest difference between last september and now is the increase in price per kg across the board that is achievable.
 
muckymanor said:
It goes back to the whole simmental thing again that I have posted about before. She was 16 months in september and €915 would have meant selling her at a loss. A few exceptional simmental heifers will be bought for breeding and make good money. An ordinary one will not sell well at 9 to 18 months. It's only when they get some flesh on them that people recognise their potential. Equivalent limousin heifers were worth €100+ more than the simmentals last september.

I live and learn. It means choosing wisely what to sell and when I sell them. ie. I should have sold all of my LM heifers last september and kept onto my simmentals until now.

But the biggest difference between last september and now is the increase in price per kg across the board that is achievable.
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I would have thought that any heifer with even a small bit of Smmental in them would nearly be considered to be worth a shot as a breeding heifer, at least that's what I see down our side anyways which is why I thought they would make as much as the limousin at any stage. But yes, as you said, beef in general has risen well since. Always nice to make a few pound!
 
ithastopay said:
@muckymanor
That’s serious money for cattle, in my experience of feeding heifers, neither of those heifers could leave a profit for us based on €4.00/kg base price later in the year.
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It's exceptional. The simmental would be a U. She probably left €60 to €80 more than she would have left in the factory. I have not seen prices like it before. It won't last. It would take a 750kg U grade heifer to make €1700 at €4 base. It is very hard to figure it all out. All of these heavy cattle can't be going North. All of the factories down here seem to be going strong on a 5 day week, so they're obviously getting cattle in the gate. If lads can get more in the mart than in the factory then I assume that most lads are using the marts and letting the factories bid for them there.
 
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Nashty said:
I would have thought that any heifer with even a small bit of Smmental in them would nearly be considered to be worth a shot as a breeding heifer, at least that's what I see down our side anyways which is why I thought they would make as much as the limousin at any stage. But yes, as you said, beef in general has risen well since. Always nice to make a few pound!
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Most lads, when buying a replacement heifer, will go for a well fed animal. A lot of simmentals, even though they may be well grown and a good weight, tend to be skeletal rather than plump. They tend to put on flesh from 18 months onwards. That's what I find with them - and maybe that has to do with my breeding. But as you say, nice to make something.
 
muckymanor said:
It's exceptional. The simmental would be a U. She probably left €60 to €80 more than she would have left in the factory. I have not seen prices like it before. It won't last. It would take a 750kg U grade heifer to make €1700 at €4 base. It is very hard to figure it all out. All of these heavy cattle can't be going North. All of the factories down here seem to be going strong on a 5 day week, so they're obviously getting cattle in the gate. If lads can get more in the mart than in the factory then I assume that most lads are using the marts and letting the factories bid for them there.
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I’ve come to the conclusion that we can’t compete with hobby buyers, when they are out in the spring, it’s a sellers market.

The cattle we have coming fit now, we bought last autumn, at a lot less /kg than today’s prices, had they cost 10c/kg more at buying and came into 10c/kg less when selling, we honestly would be doing it for nothing.

Rising grain prices are going to make winter finishing less attractive next winter, doing quick sums, we would need another 15 to 20c/kg on top of today’s price to leave a margin, that’s assuming we can buy stores next autumn, at the same price as last autumn.
 
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