Busy Tillage

[Ugo Schtiglitz]

I must pick up a copy later and have a read so.

It's what Andy has been banging on about for years, but it's thought provoking if slightly downbeat when lads could do with a bit of positivity. (and in so far as I can describe anything in the journal as thought provoking)
I guess the questions to ask here are:
What are you going to change inside the gate to cope with the challenges we face at the mo?
and if you could lobby for realistic change in Govt. policy towards tillage farming, what would those changes be?
Feel free!

 

[John kverneland]

A lad who rents ground told me one day about renting land in Kilkenny, I said what! Ya sure Kilkenny is only up the road he said!!

 

[Ugo Schtiglitz]

A lad who rents ground told me one day about renting land in Kilkenny, I said what! Ya sure Kilkenny is only up the road he said!!

Ah jaysus. Don't be depressing me.

 

[John kverneland]

Ah jaysus. Don't be depressing me.

Haha

 

[Always Thinking]

Cost cost and more cost is our problem, on the shinny trailers arguement we are not legally allowed heaps of crap any more, some lads were forced to invest and in reality it is a road safety issue.

Fertiliser 300-400+ per ton and it was not that long ago it was a lot less. we need to control cost.

sprays are letting us down and our advisors are basically tell us to up rates and stack actives, cost cost cost,

Red tape, bureaucracy, cost cost cost.

We do not have a problem with low prices for our products we have a cost of production problem.

We need to farm again, that means producing crops/animals from our land not going to the merchant or vet for a prescription and grow from a bag or bottle. My opinion and its not popular and ive been shouted at before for mentioning it at a meeting is that we need money invested into some proper independant research/development and education (not in Teagasc pensions by the way). I think it is way more important to give us the tools to farm profitabily than giving us a farm subsidy which is what is paying for some of those unnecessary afore mentioned Fendts.

 

[Ugo Schtiglitz]

Now we're away. Accepted with legal rsa and trailers etc.
I've trimmed back on the metal as far as I can in the last few years, not much more scope there.
While having some great individuals and doing SOME useful work, Teagasc have the habit of most public sector organisations, in that they seem to serve their own institutional needs more than ours. Every acre here has a lot of people to carry before I can carry myself. I plan to cut down on the amount of people I am carrying until things pick up. Keep sending in the requests IFA, until you get the message.
Fert is back a good bit for the coming season which is very good news and I'm into buying it now.
With cropping, I plan to maximise the pea and bean area for payment the coming year within rotational constraints. I think OSR may hit 400 forward, and if it does, I'll see where I can stick in Spring crop. Try the malting barley again(my concession to masochism) and a bit of winter barley(lightning can't strike twice in the same place surely) I have some good entries for wheat this year but honestly don't know if I can be bothered. It simply costs too much to grow.
And if you're getting shouted at, you must be doing something right IMHO.
My long term goal btw and if I can ever find the time is to get BASIS qualified, so I don't have to be patronised.
I joined a good KT group to try and empower myself a bit more on decision making.

 

[Always Thinking]

I grew 850 acres of tillage crops last year, i did not plough, disc, grub or touch the soil with a single implement except a no till drill, anicdotal but my yields are as good if not better than most neighbours. This harvest i have chopped straw on 75 %of that area because the price is just not there to consider selling, i just bale for my own cattle and some for a friend, straw is too valuable to me. I have put organic manure on 80% of that area since harvest (the rest will get some chicken manure pellets), i have replaced the time running around with cultivators with spreading dung/compost or chicken shit. I will probably buy no P or K this year, ive halved it in last 5 years and my indexes are rising, so much so ill have to stop spreading soon. I have reduced my N also, use alot of Urea now instead of CAN. Ive reduced my spend on herbicides/insecticides and fungicides, ive increased a little on pgr (to be safe with manures) and trace elements and biologicals (seaweeds/humates etc) as I believe a healthy crop will help reduce pests and diseases, I have lost a labour unit in last 2 years, i now use only 60-70 % of the diesel i did 5 years ago, my 3 tractors clock up 400 hrs per year used to be 600+. Again ive done all this and not lost out on yield, in fact i believe ive done better than i would otherwise have done. To be quite honest this grain price is not worrying me that much, I ve reduced my costs to compensate.

My point is not to say that these measure are for everyone, just that we have to try some new stuff all the time, some work some dont, but doing the same thing will give the same results and at the moment its the wrong result for most. There is no one out there to go to to advise on these things, no chemical rep, merchant, agronomist, machinery dealer, fert company or brainwashed consultant full on dinners paid for by chemical companies (bit harsh maybe) will advise you on this. trial and error the only way.

Feel free to tell me im full of shit, but at least im trying.

 

[Cork]

I grew 850 acres of tillage crops last year, i did not plough, disc, grub or touch the soil with a single implement except a no till drill, anicdotal but my yields are as good if not better than most neighbours. This harvest i have chopped straw on 75 %of that area because the price is just not there to consider selling, i just bale for my own cattle and some for a friend, straw is too valuable to me. I have put organic manure on 80% of that area since harvest (the rest will get some chicken manure pellets), i have replaced the time running around with cultivators with spreading dung/compost or chicken shit. I will probably buy no P or K this year, ive halved it in last 5 years and my indexes are rising, so much so ill have to stop spreading soon. I have reduced my N also, use alot of Urea now instead of CAN. Ive reduced my spend on herbicides/insecticides and fungicides, ive increased a little on pgr (to be safe with manures) and trace elements and biologicals (seaweeds/humates etc) as I believe a healthy crop will help reduce pests and diseases, I have lost a labour unit in last 2 years, i now use only 60-70 % of the diesel i did 5 years ago, my 3 tractors clock up 400 hrs per year used to be 600+. Again ive done all this and not lost out on yield, in fact i believe ive done better than i would otherwise have done. To be quite honest this grain price is not worrying me that much, I ve reduced my costs to compensate.

My point is not to say that these measure are for everyone, just that we have to try some new stuff all the time, some work some dont, but doing the same thing will give the same results and at the moment its the wrong result for most. There is no one out there to go to to advise on these things, no chemical rep, merchant, agronomist, machinery dealer, fert company or brainwashed consultant full on dinners paid for by chemical companies (bit harsh maybe) will advise you on this. trial and error the only way.

Feel free to tell me im full of shit, but at least im trying.

youre definitely not full of shit, i for one am hugely impressed.

 

[Ugo Schtiglitz]

Now that's a post!

 

[Always Thinking]

Lads these forums are a great thing, ive read the farming forum in the UK cover to cover (hard to spereate the good stuff from the shite but lots on there), as is social media, Twitter is a great tool, its opens you up to a whole lot of the world where people are trying some mind blowing stuff, some relevant some not so much to us but it might inspire us or turn on the light bulb above our head. I spend a little time every day reading up on reports, research, ideas or just farmers stories and its really interesting (i know im a bit of a farming nerd). But its constant learning or continual education if you like. I find the Irish tillage farming sector a little narrow minded to be honest, i think we need to reach out a bit further.
I travel to the uk as often as I can to conferences or cereals or whatever, rarely go to the tillage conference and it normally within 30 minutes drive from me. Huge amount of talks, conferences on You Tube now, some Ted talks are inspiring stuff also. Its always time well spent in my opinion.

Franky its tiring and pointless listening to farmers blaming someone else for our current prediciment, we need to help ourselves.

I could rant on but thats enough for a sunday evening. :scratchhead:

 

[Always Thinking]

youre definitely not full of shit, i for one am hugely impressed.

its all very well but crops could just as easily fail this year and it will then be proven im full of shit!

 

[6600]

What's crazy about it? Hardly any more crazy than subsoiling tramlines or cultivating before ploughing

Posted that after passing a field yesterday evening at 6:30 with a large JD with Horsch sowing CC into stubble. The fog and rain were closing in again after over a week of the same weather with a lot of barley and wheat left to cut. It will be next week before there's anything cut. Barley is growing in uncut fields. With poor weather, yields and prices to look forward to the sadness of the situation for anyone depending on tillage really came home to me. To see sizeable growers jumping through hoops and incurring considerable cost just to get a €5,000 GLAS payment is a crazy situation to me anyway. Two other farms we cut for have put land into a five year fallow for the same reason. Again, crazy.
I held back from posting anything in the thread on Busy Tillage as I would only be repeating a similar thread I started last year. On our own farm we were in a situation in the last years of the sugar beet of seriously considering stopping growing beet because the return from the barley required for rotation was negligible. Nothing has changed since and we are now back to 50 acres of crops mostly for our own feed and bedding. If we were still mainly tillage there is no doubt that my father would be the last farmer in the family.
All the excuses about return on hours worked, GLAS/SFP and lads with 500 acres+ who are able to make a living because of the amount of acres they own due to an accident of birth will not change the fact that for a normal farm of 100-200 acres tillage is a waste of time and has been for as long as I can remember.

 

[Louis mc]

Posted that after passing a field yesterday evening at 6:30 with a large JD with Horsch sowing CC into stubble. The fog and rain were closing in again after over a week of the same weather with a lot of barley and wheat left to cut. It will be next week before there's anything cut. Barley is growing in uncut fields. With poor weather, yields and prices to look forward to the sadness of the situation for anyone depending on tillage really came home to me. To see sizeable growers jumping through hoops and incurring considerable cost just to get a €5,000 GLAS payment is a crazy situation to me anyway. Two other farms we cut for have put land into a five year fallow for the same reason. Again, crazy.
I held back from posting anything in the thread on Busy Tillage as I would only be repeating a similar thread I started last year. On our own farm we were in a situation in the last years of the sugar beet of seriously considering stopping growing beet because the return from the barley required for rotation was negligible. Nothing has changed since and we are now back to 50 acres of crops mostly for our own feed and bedding. If we were still mainly tillage there is no doubt that my father would be the last farmer in the family.
All the excuses about return on hours worked, GLAS/SFP and lads with 500 acres+ who are able to make a living because of the amount of acres they own due to an accident of birth will not change the fact that for a normal farm of 100-200 acres tillage is a waste of time and has been for as long as I can remember.

I don't know why you need to attck cover crops though. Glas pays more than the cost of growing them so that's a benefit to farmers income? Plus they then have the soil benefits of cover crops for free

If they will have more income from5 year fallow than cropping why is it crazy to do it?

I

 

[Ugo Schtiglitz]

Posted that after passing a field yesterday evening at 6:30 with a large JD with Horsch sowing CC into stubble. The fog and rain were closing in again after over a week of the same weather with a lot of barley and wheat left to cut. It will be next week before there's anything cut. Barley is growing in uncut fields. With poor weather, yields and prices to look forward to the sadness of the situation for anyone depending on tillage really came home to me. To see sizeable growers jumping through hoops and incurring considerable cost just to get a €5,000 GLAS payment is a crazy situation to me anyway. Two other farms we cut for have put land into a five year fallow for the same reason. Again, crazy.
I held back from posting anything in the thread on Busy Tillage as I would only be repeating a similar thread I started last year. On our own farm we were in a situation in the last years of the sugar beet of seriously considering stopping growing beet because the return from the barley required for rotation was negligible. Nothing has changed since and we are now back to 50 acres of crops mostly for our own feed and bedding. If we were still mainly tillage there is no doubt that my father would be the last farmer in the family.
All the excuses about return on hours worked, GLAS/SFP and lads with 500 acres+ who are able to make a living because of the amount of acres they own due to an accident of birth will not change the fact that for a normal farm of 100-200 acres tillage is a waste of time and has been for as long as I can remember.

Yes, returns are shite, we don't have a predictable climate, finding money for re-investment is difficult and simply making a living is very difficult. Name me an agricultural enterprise that isn't in the same boat at the moment. Individual farms are as diverse as the individuals farming them and their circumstances. Some may have a great historic SFP or income stream from somewhere else, or be at the beginning or tailend of raising a family.....there is an endless list of variables.
If you make the decision that you're going to plant, then why not chase the glas money? Teagasc and other studies don't rate cover cropping as being of any economic benefit, I have seen different because of the state the soils had gotten into here. If the glas money offsets part of the remedial action req'd to improve my stewardship of the farm, then I'll take it.
Or just plant grass in the whole lot in grass for a few years, top it and sit around getting fat.

 

[6600]

I don't know why you need to attck cover crops though. Glas pays more than the cost of growing them so that's a benefit to farmers income? Plus they then have the soil benefits of cover crops for free

If they will have more income from5 year fallow than cropping why is it crazy to do it?

I

It just looks like the orchestra on the Titanic to me that's all. I suppose if your happy making €100 an acre then €5,000 sounds great. It costs money to establish these crops not to mention the costs and maintenance involved in other GLAS measures while adding very little to the farm business and maybe reducing the farmed area if you go for the fallow option. I see a few around here sowing 5 year fallow in the middle of their grazing area which seems nuts to me anyway. If they bought a few pigtails stakes they'd be further forward.

 

[Blackwater boy]

It just looks like the orchestra on the Titanic to me that's all. I suppose if your happy making €100 an acre then €5,000 sounds great. It costs money to establish these crops not to mention the costs and maintenance involved in other GLAS measures while adding very little to the farm business and maybe reducing the farmed area if you go for the fallow option. I see a few around here sowing 5 year fallow in the middle of their grazing area which seems nuts to me anyway. If they bought a few pigtails stakes they'd be further forward.

While I don't agree or disagree with your posts the GLAS scheme is a very handy 5k on a lot of farms, the wild bird cover sown on a few wet or hilly or poor areas of the farm is a no brainer, the 155 a ha for the cover crop is profitable as well, 10er for the seed and another 15-20 to set it as you can rotate it around the farm it can be set ahead of a spring crop, bird and bat boxes etc, none of these measures are too high a cost.
We have SAC, fencing or watercourses which was done already, wild bird cover and cover cropping of 12 acres, total cost of about 1000 to get 5000- a good investment here anyway and the 1k includes the planners fee, a nutrient management plan must be done aswell but that is no harm whatsoever, fresh soil tests are always good.
I would not be in favour of lads buying fancy machines eapecially to set these cover crops tho and I don't think these crops will be the saviour of anyone but they are probably cost neutral at worst and while we get paid to put them in then why not.

 

[Iggy]

The glass is half full or half empty. A farmer lives on his wits and any where or any how he can turn a few bob he has to. I've over 400 acres of cereals and REPS and GLAS has been great to get at the end of the year. Low grain prices gives us a chance to drop land rents, bargain with merchants and learn to be frugal with resources. farming can turn around very fast, especially grain prices.

 

[Cork]

The glass is half full or half empty. A farmer lives on his wits and any where or any how he can turn a few bob he has to. I've over 400 acres of cereals and REPS and GLAS has been great to get at the end of the year. Low grain prices gives us a chance to drop land rents, bargain with merchants and learn to be frugal with resources. farming can turn around very fast, especially grain prices.

Well said

 

[6600]

Well said

So that's that then good luck living on positivity. We'll see you all outbidding each other for land again next year. The delusion continues.

 

[nashmach]

The glass is half full or half empty. A farmer lives on his wits and any where or any how he can turn a few bob he has to. I've over 400 acres of cereals and REPS and GLAS has been great to get at the end of the year. Low grain prices gives us a chance to drop land rents, bargain with merchants and learn to be frugal with resources. farming can turn around very fast, especially grain prices.

I'm not sure on a lot of that Iggy.

How can rents be dropped when most are entering multi year leases now and have done so in the past few years? We are not in the renting land wheel here so can't comment for definite but anecodedelly I don't hear many of these having regular rent reviews. We also have this silly scenario where entitlements are floating around and can't be traded but still lead to farming for the entitlements malarkey.

Merchants will be at their pin of the collars too due to them being let develop as a bank for growers, no sector is rosy at the moment and I doubt many have low bad debt levels at present.

I can't see how anyone involved in the inputs side is going to be able to negotiate further either, we are witnessing unprecedented merger and acquisition levels in agri chemical companies at present and I fail to see how this monopoly (well it be be more than one but you know what I mean) will help farmers.

 

[Iggy]

my own business nashmach I am talking about only. When grain starts going over 160 (green) a ton, the lads I rent ground from have every Tom Dick and Harry asking them to rent them the ground, funny I don't have that problem this year. Got most of the interest of my account in merchant this year, don't quote me on that and maybe now is the time to forward buy your fertilizer for next year. My point in all this is just maybe cover crops are a good idea and the GLAS payment a good incentive to implement them becoming common place.

 

[Cork]

So that's that then good luck living on positivity. We'll see you all outbidding each other for land again next year. The delusion continues.

This thread is starting to run off topic, the recent posts are probably best placed in another thread.

I am generally a positive person but I do live in reality. It's hard to remain positive these days as my job has me immersed in the tillage sector almost every day of the year, not to mind being very keenly aware of the economics of our own tillage enterprise at home.

Nobody can "live on positivity" but a positive frame of mind is a huge strength to anyone in life.

For one, I don't rent land, primarily because I cant make it stack up economically. Different people have different views, some need land for entitlements.


As I stated in an earlier thread, we all have choices. There is nothing productive about criticising choices of other farmers when it comes to expansion or contraction.
Everyone needs to look at their business inside their own farm gate, some will exit tillage, some will exit farming, some will expand.

I was never an athlete but when we were running in races in school, we were always told to never look over your shoulder at who is behind you. Doing so will distract you from your own running and you'll lose.

Currently (and plans can always change), our farming plan is to remain as focussed as we can on getting the best performance that we can from our crops and land;

In no particular order;

Maximise yield from our crops (soil, rotation, varieties, spray programmes, seed rates, seed beds etc).
Maximise value of our crops (seed, malting etc).
No rented land unless we can get it very cheap and of good quality.
Look after machinery and get the value from it in terms of making it last.
Buy land if it can be sourced at a sensible price.
Do everything as efficiently as possible (planned rotations, currently plan 4 years ahead, block cropping, contractors for capital intensive jobs)
Make use of things like GLAS, Protein aid for beans etc. I am very fond of guaranteed money.

We are in difficult times, there is no doubt. Our ancestors in farming faced plenty of tough(er) times but thanks to their persistence and determination, we are still here and still farming.

As a wise Wexford man once said to me - "we are only minding the land for the next generation, we do not own it forever".

I'm 39 this year. If I am going to farm till my late 60's, that means that I only have about 30 harvests left - that's only 30 chances to get it right and I intend leaving our farming business in as good or hopefully in better order than it was when we were handed it (and it was very good when it was handed to us).

That's my tupence for the moment.

And to keep everyone happy - Cover Crops

 

[Louis mc]

:rolleyes2::rolleyes2::rolleyes2:

This thread is starting to run off topic, the recent posts are probably best placed in another thread.

I am generally a positive person but I do live in reality. It's hard to remain positive these days as my job has me immersed in the tillage sector almost every day of the year, not to mind being very keenly aware of the economics of our own tillage enterprise at home.

Nobody can "live on positivity" but a positive frame of mind is a huge strength to anyone in life.

For one, I don't rent land, primarily because I cant make it stack up economically. Different people have different views, some need land for entitlements.


As I stated in an earlier thread, we all have choices. There is nothing productive about criticising choices of other farmers when it comes to expansion or contraction.
Everyone needs to look at their business inside their own farm gate, some will exit tillage, some will exit farming, some will expand.

I was never an athlete but when we were running in races in school, we were always told to never look over your shoulder at who is behind you. Doing so will distract you from your own running and you'll lose.

Currently (and plans can always change), our farming plan is to remain as focussed as we can on getting the best performance that we can from our crops and land;

In no particular order;

Maximise yield from our crops (soil, rotation, varieties, spray programmes, seed rates, seed beds etc).
Maximise value of our crops (seed, malting etc).
No rented land unless we can get it very cheap and of good quality.
Look after machinery and get the value from it in terms of making it last.
Buy land if it can be sourced at a sensible price.
Do everything as efficiently as possible (planned rotations, currently plan 4 years ahead, block cropping, contractors for capital intensive jobs)
Make use of things like GLAS, Protein aid for beans etc. I am very fond of guaranteed money.

We are in difficult times, there is no doubt. Our ancestors in farming faced plenty of tough(er) times but thanks to their persistence and determination, we are still here and still farming.

As a wise Wexford man once said to me - "we are only minding the land for the next generation, we do not own it forever".

I'm 39 this year. If I am going to farm till my late 60's, that means that I only have about 30 harvests left - that's only 30 chances to get it right and I intend leaving our farming business in as good or hopefully in better order than it was when we were handed it (and it was very good when it was handed to us).

That's my tupence for the moment.

You haven't mentioned cover crops once here.....maybe this should be moved to another thread :rolleyes2:

 

[Cork]

:rolleyes2::rolleyes2::rolleyes2:
You haven't mentioned cover crops once here.....maybe this should be moved to another thread :rolleyes2:

To reply to your criticism Louis;

1. At the beginning of my post, I suggested moving this and other previous posts to another thread.........

2. I didn't get into specifics but I did highlight rotations (which could be used to describe CC's) and I also did mention soils - which is the very asset which cover crops are designed to improve.

p.s. I just added them to my post, so all should be well in the world again.

 

[Louis mc]

To reply to your criticism Louis;

1. At the beginning of my post, I suggested moving this and other previous posts to another thread.........

2. I didn't get into specifics but I did highlight rotations (which could be used to describe CC's) and I also did mention soils - which is the very asset which cover crops are designed to improve.

p.s. I just added them to my post, so all should be well in the world again.