Cap 2023-2027

eire23

Well-Known Member
Surprised there wasn't a thread on this with some of the details being out out yesterday.
What are people thoughts on it. Sheep welfare scheme has been renewed which is good as its money for something that one would be doing anyways. Something for the suckler in it as well? See a new environmental scheme with a max payment of 10k what ever tthat will involve. Front loading on the first 30ha but it seems a small figure, something around 45 an entitlement. Thought it would've been more to suit some smaller farms. Was chatting the ag consultant this morning and she said that any land that's reseeded or getting a lot of manure will be impossible to get into these schemes or get a very low score.
 

muckymanor

Well-Known Member
Surprised there wasn't a thread on this with some of the details being out out yesterday.
What are people thoughts on it. Sheep welfare scheme has been renewed which is good as its money for something that one would be doing anyways. Something for the suckler in it as well? See a new environmental scheme with a max payment of 10k what ever tthat will involve. Front loading on the first 30ha but it seems a small figure, something around 45 an entitlement. Thought it would've been more to suit some smaller farms. Was chatting the ag consultant this morning and she said that any land that's reseeded or getting a lot of manure will be impossible to get into these schemes or get a very low score.
I'm looking at it from a critical point of view.

Only 15% of farms will qualify for tier 2 of Glas and €10,000 so 85% of farms will only get a max of €7000 in Glas and with inflation, we won't be any better off than we were with Glas.
Suckler farmers can already access grants of close to €200 per cow between BDGP and BEEPs. They are making it out that they are giving €300 more per cow. They're not. There's a lot of hoops to get the €200 that we already get and it looks like many, many more hoops to get the €300 proposed. Lads that weren't in BDGP or that didn't keep up their numbers, will face serious spend for to get there. Also, many lads don't think BDGP was a good idea ( I thought it was great!), so they will be hard to persuade to go into it.

From talking to a planner doing plans for REAP, the multi species crop won't be a measure suited to any grassland that is being managed - any land that got sprayed with mcpa in the last 5 years won't make it. Any land reseeded in recent years won't make it. Any land getting a lot of fertilizer or slurry won't make it. I might farm wet land, but I try to grow as much grass as I can. I don't see it fair that they will reward my neighbor who puts nothing into grass management. But I'm sure that some of the lads who have recently sown multi species crops will gain from it.

It's better than nothing, but if they expect it to make up for any future reduction in cow numbers, it won't. It might force more lads to get out altogether and plant their land or rent it to the dairy farmers.
 

Seedsower

Well-Known Member
Convergence will be a big issue for those with high value entitlements.
I haven't seen any worked example but the farmer who was busy in the reference period is looking like losing significantly
 

nashmach

Well-Known Member
As far as I can see this is effectively a 25% decrease in payments for anyone farming anyway intensively.

All it will do is create am industry around farming again as well of course with more work for advisors and so on.

I think it's very disingenuous of the Farmers Journal to be running articles and news ads on the radio proclaiming 10k per farmer when in reality less than 10% of farmers will get it.

I haven't bothered reading much more of it as it would only put you in bad form.
 

Seedsower

Well-Known Member
It's hard to not be concerned for the future if you have a decent payment per acre built up.convergence is coming though it's hard to figure out.
Looks like a high payment will be halved from its original value or worse and will possibly have to do eco measures to get that much.with the carbon budget reductions it's like the future has a dark cloud over it
 

jay gatsby

Well-Known Member
It's hard to not be concerned for the future if you have a decent payment per acre built up.convergence is coming though it's hard to figure out.
Looks like a high payment will be halved from its original value or worse and will possibly have to do eco measures to get that much.with the carbon budget reductions it's like the future has a dark cloud over it
The minister was visiting locally last week and got a hot reception i believe.

One point a lot of ifa reps were making which I'd disagree with was that any increases and some of the decreases were being disguised in schemes with more work and paper etc. Rather than coming in the SFP. Broadly speaking I dont mind how many schemes there are, if it pays to fill out forms and carry out some environmental actions better than it does to finish stock im.ok with that to a certain level. A lot of lads still run down BEEP and BDGP and I know some who refuse to weigh stock and just make up the figures etc. To me thats nuts, those schemes are decent money for small input, more of those would be fine.

That said there are other elements of the carbon reduction model that are needing a lot more work and would be happy to see more lobbying there
 

candor

Moderator/IT Guy
With regard to convergence, to be honest it makes sense that it's a flat payment. Obviously that still depends on what land base you have to work with but at least the playing field is starting to level somewhat. Historical activities shouldn't come into it, as that is not neccessarily what is happening on the ground now.

@muckymanor does make a good point about inflation though. The reduction in payments doesn't track with that. I'm new to farming in my own right and am treating the payment as a little business start up grant and am looking for ways to diversify farm income to keep my family on the land going into the future.
 

Seedsower

Well-Known Member
The problem is,not everyone can diversify,there simply would not be enough opportunities.
If mainstream farming won't pay ,whether that includes payments or not there is a big problem.only dairying is leaving a realistic margin.
Many fulltime farmers have been supported by payments,that are being eroded.a lot of them are at an age where major change won't be easy.
I diversified in a big way towards tourism over the last 3 years and while it's not handy its great to have it, without it I would be very concerned for my future
 

danbarr

New Member
Anyone hear any talks yet of more detail around the Eco schemes. What will the new stocking rate for the extensive stocking rate be or the likes of the reduced nitrogen figures? Haven't come across any of this detail yet, maybe they haven't been issued yet?
 

Rusty Spade

Well-Known Member
With regard to convergence, to be honest it makes sense that it's a flat payment. Obviously that still depends on what land base you have to work with but at least the playing field is starting to level somewhat. Historical activities shouldn't come into it, as that is not neccessarily what is happening on the ground now.

@muckymanor does make a good point about inflation though. The reduction in payments doesn't track with that. I'm new to farming in my own right and am treating the payment as a little business start up grant and am looking for ways to diversify farm income to keep my family on the land going into the future.
Just on inflation, taking an average of 2% a year over the last 20 years, and not compounding it, along with the 2 cuts already taken out before convergence kicked in, the value of our BPS is now less than half of what we received 20 years ago.
 

candor

Moderator/IT Guy
Just on inflation, taking an average of 2% a year over the last 20 years, and not compounding it, along with the 2 cuts already taken out before convergence kicked in, the value of our BPS is now less than half of what we received 20 years ago.
This is a quick and simple way to see how inflation works over the years:

Taking £5000 punts in November 1995, converted to euro (£1=€1.27), leaves the actual value now at over €10,000.

Screenshot 2021-10-28 at 09.19.44.png

I'm still for convergence but the rising tide of inflation should be part of the equation too.
 

Arthur

Well-Known Member
Don't know how true this is and the source would be reputable but heard this evening that anyone getting SFP will have to plant 3 trees per hectare each year for the next five years, If you are farming 100 ha thats 1500 trees, just listening to Claire Byrne and when they say reducing methane from agriculture is the most cost effective way to mitigate global warming then they should be able to throw the money at it if its so cost effective instead of trying to make the farmer carry the can.
 

Seedsower

Well-Known Member
75euro/ha won't make anyone rich that's for sure.it sounds from that article that it's 25% of everyone's payments goes in to a pool fund then everyone can draw out of it.if this isn't worthwhile for large dairy farms then it's a waste of time as they are the ones needing behavior change.
 

eire23

Well-Known Member
75euro/ha won't make anyone rich that's for sure.it sounds from that article that it's 25% of everyone's payments goes in to a pool fund then everyone can draw out of it.if this isn't worthwhile for large dairy farms then it's a waste of time as they are the ones needing behavior change.
You would imagine that anyone farming intensively is going to forego that 25%. I wonder how unclaimed money will be divided out, I suppose it's unlikley to be added on to anyone's payment that qualifies for the 25% eco part.
 
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