Cap 2023-2027

Seedsower

Well-Known Member
Stitching in to dense old pasture is unlikely to be successful.
Reseeding with ryegrass brings increased performance but only with more fertilizer.
If you are spread little fertilizer old pasture will perform better in summer in my experience.
Early spring is when the ryegrass shines
 

marco

Well-Known Member
There's a few different online discussion groups where people have claimed that stitching in clover, plantain and chicory to existing swards has worked well. I have spoken to one person who has done it on heavy land and they are pretty happy with it.

I have a quandary. I have old pasture on fairly good ground that was never reseeded in the last 100 years. With p and k indexes correct it grows a lot of grazable grass with minimal N input. There is no way that I can afford to spray it off in order to sow MSS. All that I can do is try to tweak it by adding species to it.
Wouldn't you be better go for the poor producing field first?
 

muckymanor

Well-Known Member
Wouldn't you be better go for the poor producing field first?
There's such a variety in land quality over 70 acres on the one farm. The poorest producing field is poor producing for a reason (mainly because of soil quality, depth and drainage and the best is deep fertile. The best field gives an awful lot and needs very little. Sowing more species into the best fields would give it the best chance of establishment and putting in clover that could sequester nitrogen would push it to a higher level of productivity than it is at now. I don't farm intensively by any means. I'm willing to experiment, but I don't want to sacrifice what I have already got.
 

Funkeyfarmer

Well-Known Member
There's such a variety in land quality over 70 acres on the one farm. The poorest producing field is poor producing for a reason (mainly because of soil quality, depth and drainage and the best is deep fertile. The best field gives an awful lot and needs very little. Sowing more species into the best fields would give it the best chance of establishment and putting in clover that could sequester nitrogen would push it to a higher level of productivity than it is at now. I don't farm intensively by any means. I'm willing to experiment, but I don't want to sacrifice what I have already got.
My 2 cents on it after my 1st 6 months. I've stoney land so next time I'm going disc instead of plough. Good spray off is essential I might consider doing a break of fodder rape. I've an issue with docs now so controlling that will be a issue. It's not a wonder crop but I reckon a bit of variety in the diet can't be a bad thing just hoping for reduced fertiliser need partly on cost partly on one less job to do.
 

Arthur

Well-Known Member
Logically I can't see how mss could get anywhere near competing with prg for productivity, sure if it could we wouldn't have been using the grass swards we have for the last 40 years.

I still think they have a place but on a straight output basis I think they'll be way off. We've played around with grass varieties and clover the last few reseeds but to be honest will be focusing on persistence and in future
 

ptfarmer

Well-Known Member
What varieties have u sown and how long?the key messages I have been hearing are better animal performance,as u say less worm problems and lack of persistency.in production terms,where is the comparison?
Will you have leafy regrowth regularly with no fertilizer?
Basically what we done here was seek to reduce the bagged stuff and utilise fym and watery slurry at key times of year. This led over time to a greater variety of grass and herb species spreading threw the sward.The advantages of this was obviously low cost and allowed time for stock to get used to different sward mixes. I suspect it helped too that we have s0me SAC land which held a seed bank of these species so that obviously doesn't apply to everyone. However we did do some scarifying and over seeding with clover and timothy to speed things up on the outfarm which is generally drier ground and that worked well. We found the older native grass strains were also more robust when it came to late spring droughts or water logging after wet winters in terms of leafy re-growth when grazed
 

Rusty Spade

Well-Known Member
There's a bit more detail on the shape of what's coming starting in 2023.


Slurry spreading stopping on Oct 8th next year and Oct 1st in 2023 but an extension might be allowed under some as yet undecided conditions.

Spreading soiled water is going to be more restricted and a separate holding tank might be needed.

Fertiliser allowances dropped by 10% next year and another 5% in 2024.

A 2 week reduction in permitted artificial fert spreading much the same as the slurry one above.

There's a requirement to shallow cultivate tillage ground post harvest or sow a crop within 14 days.

By 2025, only farms with stocking rates <100kgs will be permitted to use anything other than LESS for slurry.

So if you're thinking of investing in LESS, soon would be best if you're thinking of going for a grant.
 

marco

Well-Known Member
There's a bit more detail on the shape of what's coming starting in 2023.


Slurry spreading stopping on Oct 8th next year and Oct 1st in 2023 but an extension might be allowed under some as yet undecided conditions.

Spreading soiled water is going to be more restricted and a separate holding tank might be needed.

Fertiliser allowances dropped by 10% next year and another 5% in 2024.

A 2 week reduction in permitted artificial fert spreading much the same as the slurry one above.

There's a requirement to shallow cultivate tillage ground post harvest or sow a crop within 14 days.

By 2025, only farms with stocking rates <100kgs will be permitted to use anything other than LESS for slurry.

So if you're thinking of investing in LESS, soon would be best if you're thinking of going for a grant.
I might have been able to get on board with extending the slurry ban for another week in January but cutting back October? These lads are f**king dopes.
 

Bog Man

Well-Known Member
If I spend four weeks cutting barley after two weeks I have to stop cutting to go scratch the barley fields before I cut the wheat. What ducking planet are these people on that they are telling me what to do on my own farm. I do between 130 to 200 hours combining and now it is compulsory to go tilling. Usually for oats I leave the field green up and spay off before sowing on a flexible target date of the 20th October. It has worked well for me . They are known nothing gobshites . Thirteen years ago myself and a few others started growing Combicrops and the experts including Andy Doyle could not understand what we were at. We can now look forward to getting half the protein payment on it so we are making progress.
 

Rusty Spade

Well-Known Member
If I spend four weeks cutting barley after two weeks I have to stop cutting to go scratch the barley fields before I cut the wheat. What ducking planet are these people on that they are telling me what to do on my own farm. I do between 130 to 200 hours combining and now it is compulsory to go tilling. Usually for oats I leave the field green up and spay off before sowing on a flexible target date of the 20th October. It has worked well for me . They are known nothing gobshites . Thirteen years ago myself and a few others started growing Combicrops and the experts including Andy Doyle could not understand what we were at. We can now look forward to getting half the protein payment on it so we are making progress.
All I can say is that's just an overview of the general rules.

The devil will be in the detail and it might have exemptions and work arounds included?
 

Barrowsider

Well-Known Member
If I spend four weeks cutting barley after two weeks I have to stop cutting to go scratch the barley fields before I cut the wheat. What ducking planet are these people on that they are telling me what to do on my own farm. I do between 130 to 200 hours combining and now it is compulsory to go tilling. Usually for oats I leave the field green up and spay off before sowing on a flexible target date of the 20th October. It has worked well for me . They are known nothing gobshites . Thirteen years ago myself and a few others started growing Combicrops and the experts including Andy Doyle could not understand what we were at. We can now look forward to getting half the protein payment on it so we are making progress.
It's a very impractical measure in a settled harvest, never mind a broken one. It'll come as a surprise to a lot of tillage farmers who were of the belief the nitrates directive only affected livestock farmers. Forcing tillage farmers to cultivate stubbles in unsuitable conditions will only lead to soil erosion which will result in sediment flow towards water bodies which is a bigger source of water pollution than the nitrate leaching they are trying to prevent.
 

marco

Well-Known Member
It's a very impractical measure in a settled harvest, never mind a broken one. It'll come as a surprise to a lot of tillage farmers who were of the belief the nitrates directive only affected livestock farmers. Forcing tillage farmers to cultivate stubbles in unsuitable conditions will only lead to soil erosion which will result in sediment flow towards water bodies which is a bigger source of water pollution than the nitrate leaching they are trying to prevent.
Not to mention the oxidation of carbon which is the opposite of what I thought they were trying to achieve.
 

nashmach

Well-Known Member
So basically they will want us all chopping straw then and forget about trying to get it baled.

I wonder will the reduction in the fertiliser limits flow through to tillage crops as well.

No mention of what is to happen with FYM storage and spreading.
 

towbar

Well-Known Member
So basically they will want us all chopping straw then and forget about trying to get it baled.

I wonder will the reduction in the fertiliser limits flow through to tillage crops as well.

No mention of what is to happen with FYM storage and spreading.
Is it coz they now need the carbon credits from straw chopping…
 

ithastopay

Well-Known Member
For the reasons mentioned above, We didn’t participate, in the recent soil sampling scheme.
I have a similar view of new greening measures, there wasn’t much of a battle to get the extra options included, when it looked like farmers, were not going to participate in the scheme.
The greening payment is going to be in the region of €25-€30/ac, not a lot of money in the bigger scheme of things.
I fear that signing up to it, could leave farmers in the same position, as forestry owners are in now.
 

Ugo Schtiglitz

Well-Known Member
There seem to be two schools of thought opening up on this. One where carbon sequestration is measured, gains recorded accurately and sold or traded and the other where a credit is earned for differential practice to mainstream. (and kinda guessed at, but practice verified) The EU have said they see the private sector as being part of the solution, (As in trading credits) but knowing our mob, they will do everything they can to claim the carbon rights. I think we should be acting fast to establish ownership before the dead hand of the reichskommissariat in the capital gets around to selecting gear.
 

Rusty Spade

Well-Known Member
For the reasons mentioned above, We didn’t participate, in the recent soil sampling scheme.
I have a similar view of new greening measures, there wasn’t much of a battle to get the extra options included, when it looked like farmers, were not going to participate in the scheme.
The greening payment is going to be in the region of €25-€30/ac, not a lot of money in the bigger scheme of things.
I fear that signing up to it, could leave farmers in the same position, as forestry owners are in now.
I received approval for participation in the scheme before Christmas but I'll be delaying taking samples as long as possible until there's a lot more information coming out about the long term ownership of our soil carbon.
 

nashmach

Well-Known Member
For the reasons mentioned above, We didn’t participate, in the recent soil sampling scheme.
I have a similar view of new greening measures, there wasn’t much of a battle to get the extra options included, when it looked like farmers, were not going to participate in the scheme.
The greening payment is going to be in the region of €25-€30/ac, not a lot of money in the bigger scheme of things.
I fear that signing up to it, could leave farmers in the same position, as forestry owners are in now.

Bear with me on this. The EU are making all the noises on the Green budget and what they are going to do to reduce emissions. It seems to me that whatever happens it will be introduced at European level and not at local level unless some specific exemption (such as the nitrates derogation). In that cases, our shower can do very little about it despite the current fiasco on forestry.

On the greening payment, one could argue as tillage farmers obeying the 3 crop rule that we are already complicit in that? It has been opened up now that it will be harder not to qualify but the devil will be in the detail, the main one being eligible ground so for MSS is it grazing ground, for tillage measure is it tillage ground but what about stocking rate is it whole farm or grazing ground only.
 

t77

Member
€5,000k due to me for f all, as part of the Forgotten Farmers and 60% TAMS. Great little country
Hi ozzy Scott. Do u know the requirements to qualify for the payment. I took over the home farm at the end of November 2010. I didn't get any instalation aid. Will I qualify. Thank you
 
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