KTM 450
Well-Known Member
Exactly, and all the profit is made here making the concentrate. The poor lads in the states watering it down can only break even.
Diesel price/Fuel Protests
- Thread starter john415
- Start date
Seedsower
Well-Known Member
Tbh I thought he did quite well especially on prime time which wouldn't have been easy.
Pity for him the rug got pulled out from under by the papers next day digging up the past but it was always likely.
A farming representative should not look/sound like a solicitor either.
He should be able to speak fairly well while seemingly honest and a genuine farmer,thats what the public will like in my view.
I think the current ifa leader comes across well enough when we do hear him,which hasn't been happening much lately unfortunately
He did ok on prime time, but was let down on a few fronts.
First of all, a background check could have/should have been done. If they had picked someone else, they would have avoided all the revenue judgement and animal cruelty negative press. Someone else could have been made spokesperson. I think someone with PR training would have risk assessed that and decided against it. They were careful about which debates they put Dick Cheney in running as VP with Dubya, because Dick's daughter was a lesbian. In those days in the USA, that was more taboo and easy ammunition. If you've skeletons in the closet, you're as well stay off the front line.
Secondly, some of his talking points were very weak and could have been easily dismantled by someone who has done their research. There was a talking point around digger diesel effecting the price of housing, which is nonsense. The average new build house is 1700 sq ft, so is a minimum of 350-400k. Would the digger burn 2000 litres digging out a foundation? It's not going to push the needle on stopping the build.
The protest organisation was too small to justify someone of that caliber, but with all the money the IFA both have and squander, they should be an altogether slicker outfit on the lobbying front.
callwaster
Well-Known Member
The trouble is if it's formed into a coherent organization with leaders and rules it'll go the same way as the other organizations.
Tied up in talks and rules and spin and boxed in so they could be ignored.
Tied up in talks and rules and spin and boxed in so they could be ignored.
Maybe this should be in a different thread but I’m thinking about mercosur coming down the line and diesel and fert not getting any cheaper for the foreseeable even with the cuts, im kinda worried about the cap reforms next year.
Would I be silly to think that agri lobbies should be turning their guns onto the cap reforms now? It seemed like we were awfully late to the game when it came to opposing mercosur
Would I be silly to think that agri lobbies should be turning their guns onto the cap reforms now? It seemed like we were awfully late to the game when it came to opposing mercosur
Revolutions are never started by slick PR training or media friendly sound bites .
Duffy and geoghan done bloody well considering .
The assembled a grand coalition of contractors , farmers , fishermen's , hauliers etc
Their key demand of a reduction at the pump for every fuel including keep was a masterstroke because it brought a benefit to everyone who was affected by the price of fuel
The frightened the shite out of the government and I didn't see any evidence that ordinary urban Dublin people were against or annoyed with the protest
Quite the contrary in fact hence the current concern in official Ireland at this unholy alliance of rural and working class urban folk .
Leo then stepped in to drive a wedge between urban and rural to remind the urban workers that the farmers and contractors were only spongers taking their hard earned money in subsides .
The notorious liberal rag not even fit for lighting the fire The Irish times contributed an article claiming that the cuts in duty and carbon tax were effectively money from the poor going to help the rural well off.
Duffy and geoghan are naturally combative stubborn people who won't back down easy.
That's their strength and muck raking won't worry them .
The acted like a lightning rod and every man woman and child who is fed up with the constant struggle to stay afloat in twenty first century Ireland suddenly had something to focus on .
This isn't going away and will certainly be revisited indeed the ripples are still shaking the government .
Christy won't give up until he "Straightens their jaw with a clatter " as the say around here .
We’re at least 3 and a half years from the next election I can’t see the last few weeks being the straw that broke the camels back for the current government. The trouble is in that time there’s going to be more problems and bigger ones that affect the majority of country that will take centre stage. If the lads involved in the protest do run next time in their new party or with the likes of independent Ireland they will never be able to enact change, independent Ireland weren’t even considered for coalition talks last time because they’re a law unto themselves and could fold a government in a matter of days.
Being logical you can see the jump in fuel of late is down to the strait being closed and the supply and demand factor, in a normal world you’d get over the excise duty as it’s needed to pay for the services you receive but ours are just so poor that’s where the major grievance arises for the general public. I actually think the government likes to see these divisive issues as you’ll have more splinter cell parties formed off the back of this that will again ensure they’ll stay in power.
I just don’t see how much will change in Ireland in coming years.
eddie86
Well-Known Member
And as an aside, beef plan are trying for years to become an official recognized organization and meeting continuous road blocks from the government side.
eddie86
Well-Known Member
On this point specifically, the fuel to do the excavation is not going to be a show stopper, but every other part of the build is likely to also increase due to fuel price. The cost of materials has been steadily climbing the last 5 years, quarry materials as an example. Eventually a tipping point will be reached.
I don't know anyone who's annual salary increments have matched inflation in that time. And that's assuming you are paye worker in a job that you actually get annual increase.
It's a valid point in my view.
The crazy price of fuel is due to government taxation being gradually increase in the past few years as they saw an opportunity with the low world oil price. Crude oil has been more expensive in the past but we never saw the current high prices to the end user. Totally government tax to blame.
It’s supply and demand, 20% of the oil is cut off by this which means 20% of the world is now willing to pay more than we were paying to Scandinavian countries etc for oil. Car diesel rose 30% which would be in line with the constraints in the strait, tractor diesel prices are just gouging though.
Here that's like saying, Couple of years ago there was serious profiteering by dairy farmers in Ireland. Ireland produces about 10 times more than we consume in Ireland and yet the milk price doubled. And prices rose to the Irish consumers. Why should the Irish consumers pay more when we have to export milk?
It's because Dairy farmers benefitted from world prices going up due to a shortage in supply in the world. And I would hazard a guess the difference in supply and demand was closer to single digits percentages, not 20% like is happening with oil.
The countries that used gulf oil are not going to just give up because their oil is stuck the wrong side of the strait of Hormuz. They are now competing for the oil we used.
Lots complain about the closure of the fertiliser factories in Ireland. But they were not profitable compared to producing it abroad. For food security it would be good to have it here. But how many of us would be happy to always pay a higher price for Irish fertiliser just for security. We all know if Irish fert was 500 a ton and import was 300 we would not worry about supporting our Irish fertiliser plants on the off chance that someday the import stuff can't be got due to war.
We generally have been better off with world prices as the other options is to be like the UK who are not self sufficient in milk. The farmers there have to do deals with supermarkets and they don't get as good a price as we do. But it's steady. And yet we who are net exporters of milk to the UK get a better price
FIAT 450
Well-Known Member
Now getting back to my point. If you have 20l drum of diseal. 4l of that has been effected by the closure of the straight. But cos of so now the other 16l gets jacked up in price within hrs. And on the news when the straight was reopened all they were saying is ah it will takes days or week before we will see a drop here.
Ok. I sell my grain forward pre harvest the day before Russia invaded Ukraine and I get 150 a ton. I sell my grain a month or 2 later I could of got 350 a ton. Same grain still sitting in my field not harvested. I waited till harvest and I got 300.
Same grain just different day of selling.
Same grain just different day of selling.
Exactly fuel has been taxed at luxury goods rates and is now a considerable cost to contractors hauliers farmers and indeed the general public .
Carbon tax has long been a bone of contention with Christy and James and I would say that the seeds of their " gunpowder plot " were sown long before the Donald started his adventures in IRAN ..
The subsequent rise only acted as an accelerant a bit like the conventional explosion used to ignite a nuclear device.
And what would have been a day demonstration against the proposed carbon tax increase on the first of May turned into something much bigger entirely.
As the mushroom cloud spread across the country the government stumbled from shock and remained behind the curve throughout
Jack Chambers only a few days earlier had proclaimed that under no circumstances would the carbon tax rise be deferred .
The crass banality of their justification for carbon tax green diesel actually offends my sense of good taste.
Fast forward a week and the rise is postponed duty is cut and every fuel user can thank Messrs Duffy and Geoghan for it
The first cut silage will be cut and come EU president week is say the replay could be on the cards .
Or come October will the government stick another nail in the foot of the diesel rebels.
One good thing that came out of this is every dog in the country even knows to the last cent how much tax is on a litre of fuel and the amount of pressure that backbenchers will come under should ensure that the government moves with extreme caution.
Last edited:
I moved the posts relating to the Fuel support scheme to a new thread here
