Fertilizer Price Tracker

Cork

Well-Known Member
I can well understand Cork and BB etc wanting to safeguard their clients interests, and of course they should.
But why the cartel? Why the exclusivity?
At the click of a mouse you can get an instant price on wheat etc.
The shadowy almost murky world of the fertilizer trade is as simple and straightforward as the wheat trade. Open it up!
Methinks that it’s just too lucrative as it is.

My last offer was last Wednesday. It was for 15-15-15+11 at €299 for February delivery and payment in 30days after delivery. Thats for 600kg Toplift big bag.
That’s as simple and transparent as it gets. I can buy at that price..or not.

There shouldn’t be a jot of difference between fertilizer imported into France or Ireland. It’s all coming from the same source.
I should probably have made myself clearer.

I’m not trying to protect any cartel, if that were the case then I wouldn’t be interested in quoting prices.
I’m more interested in those who go to the effort of being active posters on the site actually benefiting from the site rather than the many “lurkers” who just use the site for their own benefit.
 

Mf240

Well-Known Member
The you ask manager in the local co op for a price on fert. He looks into his computer, then he looks left and right and then in a hushed voice says , "now I'm only giving you this price because your such a good customer..............

When the next Lad goes in he looks into his computer, then looms left and right and then in a hushed voice says "now I'm only giving you this price because your such a good customer........
 

horsebox44

Well-Known Member
The you ask manager in the local co op for a price on fert. He looks into his computer, then he looks left and right and then in a hushed voice says , "now I'm only giving you this price because your such a good customer..............

When the next Lad goes in he looks into his computer, then looms left and right and then in a hushed voice says "now I'm only giving you this price because your such a good customer........

:lol: :lol::lol: I think we've all experienced that lad at some stage!
 

Cork

Well-Known Member
What if milk and beef go down in price at the same time or is their price that linked to grain price ?
Internationally, fert prices would be driven by crop area and usage (and of course production cost).
High grain prices usually benefit Irish dairy producers.
 

Barrowsider

Well-Known Member
You bought it though (obvs good business), assume you put cash down close on 12months in advance. I cant see why a futures market cant be ran for fertiliser similar to grain. In the past when my business was different, I would regularly had grain contracted up to 24 months, and all I would have put down is the price of the text message. Margins in grain are small, in fertiliser they are massive
As it happens, we haven't paid for the fertiliser yet. We will Before year end. We have a good working relationship with the merchant, he knows I like a good deal, texts me prices regularly. Neither of us get too hung up on the cost of money, interest etc.
You bought it through a merchant...I didn’t.
I bought it from an importer/distributor.

The Coops/Merchants won’t ALLOW (by pure financial clout) the ordinary punter (like myself) to buy direct from the trade. That’s what I’m talking about.

Here in France if you register with the manufacturer/importer you can deal direct. To register you’ve to have a bank guarantee stating the level of finance you can go.
I bought more than 25yrs worth of N if I were to use it myself. I negotiated payment and price with them directly. They gave me 6mts without having to pay a penny.
Many moons ago I’d a sibling working in Grassland and I could buy directly from them...nothing big, only what I was using myself. A large Coop got wind of it and shut me out...because they could!
Sorry, I suspected you bought direct but wasn't sure from your original post. It would be great if we could, although I don't see that happening in the near future.
We will collect the fertiliser at the port in bulk so I'm confident the margin being taken by the merchant is minimal. It should be minimal, their involvement in almost zero.
As a matter of interest, do you buy your agrochemicals direct from the manufacturer also?
 

Blackwater boy

Moderator
I can well understand Cork and BB etc wanting to safeguard their clients interests, and of course they should.
But why the cartel? Why the exclusivity?
At the click of a mouse you can get an instant price on wheat etc.
The shadowy almost murky world of the fertilizer trade is as simple and straightforward as the wheat trade. Open it up!
Methinks that it’s just too lucrative as it is.

My last offer was last Wednesday. It was for 15-15-15+11 at €299 for February delivery and payment in 30days after delivery. Thats for 600kg Toplift big bag.
That’s as simple and transparent as it gets. I can buy at that price..or not.

There shouldn’t be a jot of difference between fertilizer imported into France or Ireland. It’s all coming from the same source.
Hang on there now John I’m on here as a farmer and not as a representative of a merchant. I’ll quote prices I buy at but I’m not quoting anything here in public.
 

Sheebadog

Well-Known Member
Maybe I should explain myself a bit as all posters seem to want the fert trade to stay as it is...maybe there’s another way is all I’m proposing?

There are three basic commodities namely N-P-K. They’re as basic as wheat -barley -osr. There’s no R&D or patents/copyright on these commodities, same as, W, B, OSR. We’re not talking about the latest fungicide technology here.
As farmers we all use these commodities. When we sell Wheat the market price is completely transparent. In fact, if another farmer asks me how much I got for wheat, I tell him *when* I sold it and he will know exactly what wheat was making at that particular time. Likewise with say Nitrogen...I say *when* I purchased and everyone knows what I paid for it. Simple and straightforward.
Price offers are usually texted to you by the importers/manufacturers. That’s the price on the day for delivery at such a date and likewise a date for payment. Again simple and straightforward.

However the Coops/Merchants WON’T allow that in Ireland. If you happen to buy direct from any of the importers and say Glanbia get wind of it, they’ll contact the importer and tell them not to sell to you...if they value the Glanbia account.
Why?
It’s certainly not because they would miss the haulage of it...

I completely understand that Johnny down the narrow boreen will still want his palet of N delivered in spring. That’s fair enough, and it’s between Johnny and his merchant.

Theres a funny (secretive even) market for fertilizer in Ireland. You must buy through a Coop/merchant and individual deals are a very private affair between the merchant and the farmer. I’d consider it weird if I was selling wheat in the same way...mf240 wasn’t too far off the mark!
Coops/merchants control the market, but seeing as everyone is happy to deal in that ‘system’, I’m sorry I opened my mouth!

***Just for clarity, just because I can buy direct and forward from importers doesn’t mean that I’m always ahead of the market. A few years ago I paid nearly €40 over and above. Likewise with selling wheat, I seem to never hit the market at the peak, but that’s my own prerogative.
 
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Bog Man

Well-Known Member
A farmer and a merchant came together and formed Target Fertilizer and very quickly got a huge proportion of the Wholesale Irish fertilizer market. I think within a couple of years they had 1/3 of the market.
They deal with People that have Gas and decide to use that gas for manufacturing Nitrogen fertilizer. They can control the market by using that Gas for other purposes but sometimes the unstable countries they work in insist that they produce fertilizer because the country needs the foreign currency to finance projects such as wars or to fund the domestic economy.This is when you get cheap fertilizer . Even the EU cannot tell Russia to produce more fertilizer with their gas . Is there an OPEC in the fertilizer industry . Even OPEC finds difficulties in controlling prices if one of the members goes on a solo run . I think with the Decarbonisation of the world fertilizer will become more expensive because it is often a byproduct of the Oil industry. People drill for oil and find gas and manufacture fertilizer as a way of storing gas . If less oil is drilled for there will be less spare gas .
 

candor

Moderator/IT Guy
I don't buy fertilizer but the concept still applies to many different products.

If some folks post prices for an item, they will benefit in a round about way if enough people take heed of it. Say an item is offered to person a at 50 euro and person b at 70 euro. At this point neither know any better about other prices offered.

They meet on the street and strike up a conversation and it turns to prices about this product. Person b decides after the conversation that he won't pay anymore than 50 euro for the same product. Person a benefits as less people are willing to pay more for the same product. This keeps the price stable and limits upward movement in the price.

That is simplifying it somewhat i know but sellers that sell at exorbitant prices thrive on secrecy.
 

bagenal

Well-Known Member
At the outset I want to state that the following is from the jungle telegraph but from near enough the source to be believable, supposedly two boatloads of CAN came into the country lately that the importer got at a good price but the quality is questionable and to somewhat overcome this it is being mixed with better quality stuff.
 

Bog Man

Well-Known Member
At the outset I want to state that the following is from the jungle telegraph but from near enough the source to be believable, supposedly two boatloads of CAN came into the country lately that the importer got at a good price but the quality is questionable and to somewhat overcome this it is being mixed with better quality stuff.
Seldom get any bad Fertiliser . I have seen a few loads sent back by other farmers because the quality was wrong . There was no issue with the importer taking it back .
One of my Neighbours gets Fertiliser off National Nutrition and they spread it for him . I had to pull him out of a greasy corner when he went down a steep hill and could not get out of it .
It would be substandard fertiliser but looked good enough to me . I think he said he was saving 5K by getting it off him .

 

Ozzy Scott

Well-Known Member
At the outset I want to state that the following is from the jungle telegraph but from near enough the source to be believable, supposedly two boatloads of CAN came into the country lately that the importer got at a good price but the quality is questionable and to somewhat overcome this it is being mixed with better quality stuff.
Nothing abnormal about that. I would collect from production store when I was using allot of CAN, I would tell the lads to load me with the big stuff. Granules like stones
 

podge 23

Well-Known Member
What type of fertilizer are we allowed spread for next year in (derogation anyway )is it protected urea or what ?
 

Ugo Schtiglitz

Well-Known Member
I would say the only two things that talk in the fert industry are volume and logistics. My guess is most fert is booked for Ireland around July or whenever the an reset price comes down from the mount on stone tablets. That is July for the following Spring onto farm. I would also guess that most work on as many as 7-8 months before pay. I also guess it has been a bit of a cash cow for the trade in manufacturing a spring price lift. (trumped up no availability or imminent rise) and shutting shop in the autumn (trumped up no-one quoting). But I think with a bit of mental dexterity/imagination, good communication and a firm agreement on payment terms, most of the pitfalls can be gotten around.
My guesses here could also be wholly inaccurate of course.
Maybe finding ways to use less of this stuff altogether is a better way to be thinking.
 

gone

Well-Known Member
I am just sorting out payment for 2021 Fert I bought through the group in late July / early August, my 4 loads would have cost me €5,432.00 more at July '19 prices.
Some years you win buying forward, others you lose, but in general I think if you do it every year fert will be bought cheaper on average in July than early Spring.
 

gone

Well-Known Member
On @gone scale €10 a tonne is a big saving .
You can sing that, there were plenty of Saturday nights I went out with less than €10 in my pocket.
I remember 1 night myself and my girlfriend went to Carlow to celebrate something or other, but we only had £15 between the 2 of us. We figured out we had just enough for main courses and nothing else, in the Little Owl??? on Dublin St, they just about let us in, stuck us in the corner and deigned to serve us. We were down to coppers after paying. The joys of starting farming.
 
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