Grass Direct Drilling Advice Where did I go wrong ?

Discussion in 'Grassland Management' started by Coral Plant, May 2, 2019.

  1. Coral Plant

    Coral Plant Well-Known Member

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    Hi all looking for advice and suggestions have new Erth Agriseeder.

    Job 1
    On 9th August last did first field 6 acres at same time across hedge 6 acres ploughed and reseeded. Long story short was serious success and 2 grazing before close. And matched if not surpassed the ploughing. Was more than happy.

    Job 2
    On 3rd September last did 12 acres. Much drier field than job 1 and we were in prob driest spell I've seen. Seed came on headlands where bit damper but struck in different times some 14 days some took up to 6 weeks to strike. There was a ground frost 2 weeks after stitching but was minimal.
    Pic is off reeseding on 11th October so exactly 38 days after seeding.seedlings struck about 7 days. Why? Suggestions?

    Below is the facts and what I've learned since.

    1. Pre mowing farmer sprayed off sward with ForeFrontT.
    2. After mowing sprayed off with roundup
    3. Farmer not happy with kill so sprayed again with roundup.
    4. Roughly 14 days after direct drilled then
    Fertaliser spread straight after and lime was put out. So all by book.
    5. One of driest September's on file.
    6. 11th October. My observations nothing growing on field 38 days later headlands was a bit of a strike but still poor.
    7. Fertaliser from 04/05 September 34 days still visible on ground.

    Recently disced the field and was reseeded as was disaster so sorted now.
    Doing 90 acres myself this year so want to get it right. Of course the machine is 100% to blame for seed not coming? Or was it ?
    Did I do something wrong? Was it the spray residue( have been told should been ploughed not drilled after ForeFrontT) I dont know as never herd of forefront till now as dont do spraying. Then sprayed with roundup twice.
    Was it just conditions drought/ ground frost/ low temp/ time of year.
    Was it sowed to deep to fast. Is machine the fault?

    One of pictures is where machine was pulled up field through what was already done this struck why ?

    Really appreciate any feedback positive or negative. Want to get it right going forward as as much work doing right as wrong .

    One change made got a tine harrow on back of machine to disturb surface incase spray residue.

    All pics below 38 days after drilling.








    Photo_2019-05-02_06-10-39_AM-968x968.png
     
  2. wdah

    wdah Well-Known Member

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    at a guess I would say the dry weather, what about pest, slugs and the like. I wouldn't blame the seed or machine. two runs of roundup was to me a bit ott.

    im no expert though, last year was very dry even like u say the fert was still visiable
     
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  3. headcase

    headcase Very Senior Member

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    Too dry
    And looking at where the grass struck in the wheelings it wasnt rolled enough
     
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  4. MF30

    MF30 Well-Known Member

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    I read something about Forefront T residue being very long lasting and not to be used in certain situations, maybe silage where the residue can carry forward in the silage to whatever crop the dung is spread onto? Something like this but stand to be corrected...
     
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  5. headcase

    headcase Very Senior Member

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    You are correct
    Only to be used on long term grazing ground
     
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  6. Blackwater boy

    Blackwater boy Moderator

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    No issue with the forefront, was it rolled at all?
     
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  7. MF30

    MF30 Well-Known Member

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    What would happen if silage was made on Forefront T treated ground and the following dung went on barley stubble to be ploughed down for more barley?
     
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  8. headcase

    headcase Very Senior Member

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    Probably nothing
    The issues come from giving or selling muck to veg growers
     
  9. 007

    007 Well-Known Member

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    my experience with stitching
    my experience with stitching is you need plenty of moisture
     
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  10. gone

    gone Well-Known Member

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    A few things could of gone wrong, the 2nd Glyphosate after sowing was very brave, to put it mildly, was it limed? the residue of the old sward can become very acidic if not. Last year was difficult for reseeding and moisture was probably the biggest issue.
     
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  11. scoffcruddle

    scoffcruddle Well-Known Member

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    Over here you need to sign a disclaimer before they sell you forefront,regards use-age,I don’t think it’s to blame,may be a contributing factor but as posted it’s a moisture issue.
     
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  12. kverneland es 80

    kverneland es 80 Well-Known Member

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    i would be saying lime
     
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  13. recycled

    recycled Moderator

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    i take it its a disc drill , grass seed guy round here isnt keen on them , in dryer conditions when the disc cuts the slot it smooths the earth and you dont get a good seed to earth contact , obviously if you get some rain then that changes
     
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  14. AYF

    AYF Well-Known Member

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    I say lime too.
    I advise people that they almost need to be geting PH and P&K done this year for drilling next year. Plus add on some lime after spraying to stop the old sward killing the seeds.

    And if headlands were done first then came up best it must not have been rolled properly. Combined with a dry year able to dry out the slots a bit much maybe?

    Manufacturers say their roller on the drill is enough but I doubt it. Especially in dry conditions it's being used to force the drill into the ground. Why would a roller able to be lifted on a 3pl be enough on direct drilling when people want big heavy rollers on ploughed ground!?! I know which is easiest to compact round a seed!!


    What spacing is the Earth seeder?


    Other bit of advice is buy an Aitchison!! :laugh::laugh:
     
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  15. Big Vern

    Big Vern Well-Known Member

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    Aye you don't want to be putting forefront any where near dung that's going onto spud ground,,, we have that t shirt,,,
     
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  16. Coral Plant

    Coral Plant Well-Known Member

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    Lol may get the Aitchison back near 11 years with it and never rolled and never a problem. Except first ever work was our own same time of year drought and to cold seed did not strike till following year. But cut silage off it since.

    That ground was limed

    Was not rolled but roller on machine.

    We were always advised not to roll after stitching never did with aitchison and never any trouble

    Erth seeder is 3" spacing aitchison was 6"
     
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  17. Mf240

    Mf240 Well-Known Member

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    I'd say moisture.
     
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  18. scoffcruddle

    scoffcruddle Well-Known Member

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    You should always roll grass seed “the secret to a good ley is a firm bottom”

    Grass seed should be no more than 1/2” deep,basically no more than the depth of your finger nail.
     
  19. Soissons

    Soissons Well-Known Member

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    Or beet ground !
     
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  20. Blackwater boy

    Blackwater boy Moderator

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    Allways roll after the direct drill at grass, that’s why your headlands are better.
     
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  21. AYF

    AYF Well-Known Member

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    How you finding the Earth for going into the ground vs Aitchison?
    Had a lad here with a moore on 3 inch spacings and he struggled to get it digging in. Wasn't a drought year either but he was very late turning up so the field was baked.

    I'd say the drought didn't help one bit last year. We did a field about the same time and was quite concerned about it for a long time. Any rain was soaking down deep quickly.


    Thinking about you not rolling. I noticed one year that the roller hadn't gone into a bit of a dip in the field. But the drill had. It was germanating much better in those rows. But then so was the headlands!!


    Often wonder would a roller made from super single wheels be a good job to mold into hollows and dips
     
  22. Coral Plant

    Coral Plant Well-Known Member

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    Funny we were always advised wit aitchison not to roll as whole idea was the drill created a pocket in ground and placed the seed into this pocket and allowed moisture heat and air into it for germination. So we never rolled one field in 11years and had 100% strike with grass and prob 90 with bird seed( alot to do with conditions eg bogs overgrown and rushes).
    There is a
    roller on Erth and I think way other drills work it is an option we will need to look at. But again the above job last Year end drought dry land on a hill would a roller of done anything only rise dust ?

    We spent 3 years researching Moore , Erth vredo guttler. And had a aitchison whole time.

    1. Aitchison - pros no problem getting in ground ideal for bird seed. Grass great on rocky stony ground manipulates anything in it's way.
    Cons - only 2 one is 6" spacing to wide for tillering of grass. So intense grazing ground or silage need to cross stitch so it's not productive.
    Build quality and generally hard on itself but then the cost of drill is very reasonable.

    2. Vredo - serious machine prob not just suited to ground around us in cavan hard to get into ground on hilly dry ground and we do alot after mulching so would clog up the drills.
    Cons - price price price different planet

    3. Moore - I'd rate it same as Erth but for 3 points
    1. Build quality prob its downfall it's actually build to good as leaves the whole frame to ridgid which in meath, louth would not matter but from cavan and locally the ground we do is all humps hollows and ridges so the Moore struggle to manipulate ground.
    2. Dept control different system from erth so harder to control dept drill is running at.
    3. Price alot dearer but serious build quality. Made for rough operators lol

    3. Erth. Overall was best for us for few reasons
    1. Been from cavan price lol that's it .
    Seriously for build quality service and just dealing with company they would literally do anything for you to help. Deal with alot of companys from diggers balers tractors and Erth in 15years best most pleasant people I've ever dealt with.
    2. Build quality. Compared to aitchison no comparison at all different league but again on price aitchison in defence is alot cheaper and in fairness what you save would more to pay to get u certified as a welder .
    3. Only way I can describe is if buying a drill for good level ground any of above will do same job. Erth for my Penny's worth is best machine to do a variety of conditions. So for our purpose nothing could come close.
    4. Hydraulic fan, 3inch spacing, simple dept control. Frame for adding weights so If really hard ground can weight the frame and place for few tourists to stand and go sightseeing if need more lol. Width 3 foot wider than our aitchison but also one pass no need to cross stitch so massive saving for us. Travel speed. Simple control of seed rate spent yesterday getting machine setup and so easy compared to the aitchison to adjust and very accurate.
    5. Biggest thing i like is the drill floats on rams as it travels meaning like the aitchison drill it manipulates the ground so all the discs are evenly in ground at all times. So if u hit a ridge or hump drill will do it's best to keep same ground pressure with all discs
    6. Not cheapest and not the dearest but for value for money build and service I honestly think top of pile

    Time will tell got to bad start and bad publicity but I will stick to guns and proof in the pudding so will do good job and let the results do talking.

    Above job was a lesson not to just drive into field and do a job ask few questions what was prep , was it sprayed and what with ? When was it last reseeded? Was it or will it be limed? Fertalised? When was it sprayed off?

    My thought on above job. I think if was left till heat came it may of struck this year like did with us in 2007. Other job we done I've been checking and new seedlings striking now 6 months after been done pointing to weather conditions last year just not right from August on for reseeding grass especially direct drilling for reason seed bed not disturbed so the tiny bit of moisture evaporated before soaking. Disced or ploughed ground loosened the seed bed so the tiny bit of moisture could soak in quickly before it evaporated.
    But always same the gobshite and the machine will always get the blame when shit goes wrong customer is always right or is he.


    Anyway thanks a million for all feedback most productive thread I ever did

    Pic from yesterday setting up drill for bird cover. Will keep updates as year goes to how its working out.
     

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  23. AYF

    AYF Well-Known Member

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    Good man! Thanks for taking the time to write that!

    We've only a 2.2m drill we bought used by a lad who'd only done 50 acres before signing up to a stewardship scheme that meant it was actually better to not re seed!
    Is built well enough for what we need. Must say have been impressed with how it goes into most ground. It's a shame they can't come up with a 3 inch spacing!

    Your quite right it's always the machine!! One local contractor got rid of his Moore after drilling a VERY public field and it failing miserably. It was far too late in the year and weather turned cold and wet very quickly. He didn't want to do it but farm insisted.....
    I only go out to do a few acres a year and I usually question them on the field first!
     
  24. Coral Plant

    Coral Plant Well-Known Member

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    No problem.

    I really liked the aitchison seeder for conditions around us. But same if was 3 even 4" would be flying but only thing is if u cross stitch same thing takes little longer but cross at angle as if u do square to first run it can lift the wee squares looks messy.

    Yea was only chatting to the guy that sprayed the field above at tractor run today. Told me he asked before spraying with the forefrontt was farmer reseeding he said no. Then few weeks later wanted roundup to spray off field and was told he was mad and would not grow then not happy with kill hit with roundup again. Never told us any of above then we stitched it like fools never got paid and got blame. This all from last August and 3 weeks ago sprayed off again and disced by us. And local contractor reseeded it again still not striking. And lad that sprayed holds little hope for success.

    So since August 1 hit forefrontt and 3 hits roundup. I'd be scared to fall over in field incase it would heal me up
     
  25. Ritchie

    Ritchie Active Member

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    Fore front has a residual effect, lots of sprays do. MCPA, Doxstar, Pas Tor there is a minimum period between spraying and re seeding, ALL diffrent,READ the lable.
    I know its not your fault.
    Lime should go on a long time BEFORE reseeding, at least a month, two or more preferably.
    If there is any crop residue could it possibly be grazed, if not run a tine harrow over ground.
    DO NOT in ANY circummstance re apply Glyphosate AFTER sowing.
    If acetic acid Kill is a problem , spread some bagged lime to relieve the problem.
    You need diffrent drills for diffrent circumstances, one drill will not work everywhere.


    Ritchie
     

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