ICBF

Discussion in 'Stock Talk' started by FIAT 450, Jun 29, 2020.

  1. FIAT 450

    FIAT 450 Well-Known Member

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    Was chatting with a man today who is very high up in a ai company and he was saying figures for dairy bulls are about to change again. The maths the ICBF use to put figures for milk , fertility and the likes doesn't seem to be working right. He expects a 100 point drop for some bulls on fertility alone. He says there are answerable to no one, going to a fair kick for lads that picked bulls and have ai cows already to them to find they aren't what they were ment to be.
     
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  2. nashmach

    nashmach Well-Known Member

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    Didn't they do the same around this time last year or the years before?
     
  3. FIAT 450

    FIAT 450 Well-Known Member

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    About two years ago but they waited till the bulls were printed in books and said books distributed before they decided to change everything. Lads even had straws in tanks and some bulls had to be replaced cos they dropped so much
     
  4. whelan1

    whelan1 Well-Known Member

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    What was the code of the dovea bull that really floored?
     
  5. FIAT 450

    FIAT 450 Well-Known Member

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    Don't know yet he said it's to happen in July.
     
  6. FIAT 450

    FIAT 450 Well-Known Member

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    And not just dovea bulls it's across the board. It's a joke whats going on we are bulling straws depending on figures and ai company's are buying bulls doing the same and then you have this crap going on in between the hole thing
     
  7. whelan1

    whelan1 Well-Known Member

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    no in the last change of formula
     
  8. FIAT 450

    FIAT 450 Well-Known Member

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    I just passed a comment on my bull and said his figures were holding up well. the guy said bulls are in for a drop now. As some of the figures were coming back so high but the animal wasn't living up to these in real life. He said in July there will be change again
     
  9. Nashty

    Nashty Well-Known Member

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    Non dairy farmer but interested observer with a genuine query in relation to this, does the EBI affect ye really except for those of ye trying to sell replacement stock?
    For example, my mates tell me that the crossbred herds have lower EBIs than they should have but on the ground, the hybrid vigour is worth around 90 euro in EBI terms that is not reflected in the values. So they have lower EBIs on paper but their figures for solids produced, fertility etc are much higher their EBI would suggest. Is that a reasonable view to take? I realise I am probably going to dig up another discussion re crossbreeding etc. but I am genuinely wondering if the EBI matters all that much in the grand scheme of things. If you have a cow, and you are happy with what they are doing, then unless you are trying to sell replacement stock based on EBI, then what difference does it make?
     
  10. FIAT 450

    FIAT 450 Well-Known Member

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    Imo I think to much of ebi is made up with fertility and early calving dates I don't think enough for production and the other traits are built in. When we pick bulls ebi is the last thing I look at. I look at fert, production, kgs milk and solids, health and scc. I have points on where i want my herd at and if the bulls fulfill these they are used. I could get the ai guy in and say just use your top ebi bull. I guarantee you he will have a huge fert figure and be minus for milk. At selling some guys go mad for figures and some if the animal looks good that will do them. I not saying the way I pick bulls is ideal but working for me at the moment. I have seen a lift in ebi alright as we focused more on fertility the last few years but we always kept the milk and kgs up. I only give cows a fr straw if there ebi is above 150, two years ago it was 130 so in the next few years I should be aiming at 200. Everything else gets a beef bull.
     
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  11. Nashty

    Nashty Well-Known Member

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    So would you agree my mates are probably more right than wrong when it comes to the EBI of a crossbred herd?
     
  12. FIAT 450

    FIAT 450 Well-Known Member

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    Ya more then likely they are. Ebi won't put milk in the tank. We have a ai sales rep drilling us for years ebi ebi ebi and then turns around last year and says lads that went solely chasing ebi have bred production out of their herds and are now try to breed it back in.
     
  13. Bencroy

    Bencroy Well-Known Member

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    Sure its pure obvious, to many hi fertile cows give less than 5000l a yr.
    So then they have to produce it off grass and if its wet or dry summer whatever part of the country your in , if the price is shite then no volume of milk means feck all left it a cheque when alls paid for.7000 to 8000 litres is achievable for most farmers hence why all these extra low yielding grass rats which has the dept and the greens going on about increase nos , nitrates and poor calves to be dealt with.extra cows means more work , facilites and more money for everyone else except the man whos actually doing the bulk of the work
     
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  14. Nashty

    Nashty Well-Known Member

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    But I think that that is possibly not the case as the lads with the crossbreds seem to be doing quiet well with the kgs of solids produced. So if anything their EBI is understated.
     
  15. FIAT 450

    FIAT 450 Well-Known Member

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    All about getting a balanced cow. One thats fertile and produces a decent yeild with out over feeding but that will also respond to meal when has to be fed.
     
  16. Blackwater boy

    Blackwater boy Moderator

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    While I agree with some of what you say your figure of 7/8K litres at decent solids is not a realistic figure for many non x bred herds to achieve at a respectable input cost. 6000 litres and 500kgs of solids would be a decent figure.
     
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  17. bruceythom

    bruceythom Well-Known Member

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    500kgs of solids delivered would be a fantastic figure.
     
  18. Bencroy

    Bencroy Well-Known Member

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    Point i was trying to make or badly presented was as a national herd have we lost production at expense of solids percentage and that now were in a position of having to keep more cows etc to get the same.some of the expansion on some farms was ridiculous.dept / eu on about nitrates, animal welfare especially calves and by god when your in the mart there are alot of poor underfed calves and its not all crossbreds either.just wondering if a little more milk from the cows and a few less and we could be every bit as far on.cant understand lads going from 150 to 250 + cows.works for some but how many has people willing to milk after there day coming on.if ya cant live on 100 cows or that theres something wrong.just my opinion and i could be very wrong , as they say your health is your wealth which i know all about
     
  19. Bencroy

    Bencroy Well-Known Member

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    I see tim oleary has a letter in the journal re icbf and tear gas about crossbreeding and hi ebi herds
    Would seem to be a bit of friction there.
    I remember him giving a " pep " talk to a macra meeting in portlaoise to a group of young farmers.it was shortly before change of leadership in ifa when he was deputy.if my memory serves me right i think it was mid summer 2014
    Basically he as good as said in a roundabout way, to be a farmer you need to be a dairy farmer and unless you were crossbreeding your at nothing.
    He pissed alot of people that day.alot of good beef , sheep , pigs , tillage farmers there that day.there are good farmers in every sector.
    Cross breeding suits some and wont suit others
     
  20. 6600

    6600 Well-Known Member

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    They definitely have a place in larger herds walking good distances and in harsh climates.
     
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  21. Bog Man

    Bog Man Well-Known Member

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    I suspect the indoor high yielding cows managed well is more scaleable than trying to walk a 1000 cows and maintain roadways. Even the New Zealand large herds are going indoors.
     
  22. 6600

    6600 Well-Known Member

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    True, the limit for grazing is closer to 150 cows on all but a tiny percentage of Irish farms given their small size and fragmentation. To go more it's either zero graze or silage. Zero graze makes zero sense to me. It's easy enough make consistently good silage and not have to be harvesting it every day.
     
  23. Arthur

    Arthur Well-Known Member

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    A few herds around here knocking on 300 and above walking from paddock to parlour, some aiming for 500.
     
  24. Bog Man

    Bog Man Well-Known Member

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    I think one reason for going indoors is to control pollution .
     
  25. Bencroy

    Bencroy Well-Known Member

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    Good few herds heading the route of in at night on dry silage and out by day when they have ramped up numbers of cows.most farms are fragmented up here anyway and tricky weather in the nw and across the border would leave it not unusual to be in at night
     

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