Politics in Ireland

JohnBoy

Well-Known Member
far away hills and all that.



The brutal reality is we get the politicians we vote for, that's how democracy works. And we vote for bulsh*tters, crooks and cowboys.

But they go to loads of funerals.
 

Hereford

Member
98% of politicians , Run with the fox and hunt with the hound, For an Island the amount of politicians and their advisers salary and expenses is crazy and guess what they are looking for another increase .if this country was run like a business with professional people and if you mess up ur out no big pension. Its easy spending op money and have no concesques. But sure what would I know I'm only a farmer 🤠
I think the biggest issue with paying politicians and their advisers is the pensions. Most will get pension for a lot longer than they are in the job. Pay them well when they are in the job but let them look after their own pensions
 

Burdizzo

Well-Known Member
no system is perfect but ours results in too much compromise , consensus and fudge
I didn't say it was perfect, I agree it has flaws.

But FPTP is worse. Read the flaws in the link below to the campaign in the UK to change to PR.
 

jay gatsby

Well-Known Member
our PR system is a ball5 of a job , it means every constituency TD is constantly looking over their shoulder to see which local populist issue is drawing most attention , as such they prioritise small stuff ahead of important national issue , thats not to say local issues are unimportant but councellors should be dealing with those , not TD,s

first past the post is better
No. I couldnt agree with you there, has its benefits certainly but pr-stv is the daddy
 

Kieran97

Well-Known Member
With FPTP you end up with a situation of potentially large swathes of the population disenfranchised

For example, 5 candidates, each get the following percentage of the vote

1-22%
2-21%
3-20%
4-18%
5-9%

Number 1 gets elected. No one else, despite only getting 22% of the vote.

So the voices of 78% don't matter. I know thats a very idealised scenario, but with PR, a wider swathe of the population is represented

The Conservative party got something like 60-something percent of the seats last election despite only getting around 45% of the vote.
 

indecisive sort

Well-Known Member
No. I couldnt agree with you there, has its benefits certainly but pr-stv is the daddy

only one other nation uses it apart from us

malta

single transferable vote

in principle , PR is more democratic , in practice it results in everyone crowding around a consensus , indecisiveness and career fence sitters like MM becoming leader
 

JohnBoy

Well-Known Member
In both principle and practice PR is more democratic. Theres no way you can slice it that makes it less democratic.


It is leading to weak governments but clearly that is what the people want.


FPTP allows for strong governments specifically because they can ignore large parts of the electorate.

That's undemocratic but tends to make it easier to get stuff done.
 

Kieran97

Well-Known Member
In both principle and practice PR is more democratic. Theres no way you can slice it that makes it less democratic.


It is leading to weak governments but clearly that is what the people want.


FPTP allows for strong governments specifically because they can ignore large parts of the electorate.

That's undemocratic but tends to make it easier to get stuff done.

Undemocratic but gets stuff done is one of the arguments used to try and justify a one party state.
 

Kieran97

Well-Known Member
Take it down before I choke on my foie gras
Mind in case you get any of it on your charvet shirt.

I remember a great line of Dermot Morgan's on an old scrap Saturday CD that was in the house, in persona as CJ

"in an effort to integrate in Europe more successfully we have adopted some French protocols. Before we commence proceedings all ministers must kiss me on both cheeks. I then pull up my trousers and we proceed with the meeting"
 

indecisive sort

Well-Known Member
In both principle and practice PR is more democratic. Theres no way you can slice it that makes it less democratic.


It is leading to weak governments but clearly that is what the people want.


FPTP allows for strong governments specifically because they can ignore large parts of the electorate.

That's undemocratic but tends to make it easier to get stuff done.

i prefer the model where stuff gets done
 

indecisive sort

Well-Known Member
Say what you like about him, but he would have more balls at the moment and we would probably be at the same level as the UK now in terms of the Covid path.

haughey was the most talented man to ever lead this country , a fair bit of badness came with it unfortunately

still rate him far higher than most we have had in the top job
 

Bog Man

Well-Known Member
haughey was the most talented man to ever lead this country , a fair bit of badness came with it unfortunately

still rate him far higher than most we have had in the top job
In the early 1960,s Paddy O Keefe of the Farmers Journal said he was a dangerous person and he used to go hunting with him .
A political party should be strong enough to rein in bully’s . Fianna Fáil was weak and has suffered because they let haughey away with it . John McGuinness is one of the most widely respected politicians across all parties.
 

indecisive sort

Well-Known Member
In the early 1960,s Paddy O Keefe of the Farmers Journal said he was a dangerous person and he used to go hunting with him .
A political party should be strong enough to rein in bully’s . Fianna Fáil was weak and has suffered because they let haughey away with it . John McGuinness is one of the most widely respected politicians across all parties.

never liked o keefe myself , well from the pieces he wrote , i never liked him
 

Mid cork

Well-Known Member
I remember reading somewhere about the man that first brought Charolais cattle into Ireland back in the sixties. He had been years trying to get them in but the Dep stalling him. Eventually he was told to lodge x amount of money in some bank account. He deposited the money and straight away he got the go ahead from the Dep. Guess who was minister for agriculture at the time.
The man was rotten to the core.
 

jf 850

Well-Known Member
Say what you like about him, but he would have more balls at the moment and we would probably be at the same level as the UK now in terms of the Covid path.

Whatever Charlie did , was for the good of Charlie , and accidental if it the country benefited.

As for blaming the government for the current high Covid numbers,
Unless you had the Gestapo patrolling streets , ports , airports etc , you wouldn't have lower numbers .
The number of people who regard it their God given right to socialise, party , meet with friends , not to mention Larry The Leech 's grip of the meat industry , all mean it increased in leaps and bounds .

People are not willing to be responsible for their own actions.
 

jay gatsby

Well-Known Member
I remember reading somewhere about the man that first brought Charolais cattle into Ireland back in the sixties. He had been years trying to get them in but the Dep stalling him. Eventually he was told to lodge x amount of money in some bank account. He deposited the money and straight away he got the go ahead from the Dep. Guess who was minister for agriculture at the time.
The man was rotten to the core.
My grandfather owned a pub and haughey came in canvassing with a couple of local ff councillors in tow. He waltzed in and called for a drink for the house and waltzed back out without ever putting his hand in his pocket 😅
 
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