Politics in Ireland

TAFKAT

Well-Known Member
My grandfather owned a pub and haughey came in canvassing with a couple of local ff councillors in tow. He waltzed in and called for a drink for the house and waltzed back out without ever putting his hand in his pocket 😅
Jack Charlton used to do something similar, he'd buy a round for the house and write a cheque for it, the cheque would invariably get framed and hung on the wall so they were never cashed :clap:
 

muckymanor

Well-Known Member
As for blaming the government for the current high Covid numbers,
Unless you had the Gestapo patrolling streets , ports , airports etc , you wouldn't have lower numbers .
The number of people who regard it their God given right to socialise, party , meet with friends , not to mention Larry The Leech 's grip of the meat industry , all mean it increased in leaps and bounds .

People are not willing to be responsible for their own actions.
And the media making a circus out of it...
"Give us clarity, give us a plan". How can anyone give clarity or devise a plan when they don't know what way infection numbers are going to go? The media want the government to say something so that when it doesn't happen, they will be able to slate them in a few weeks time.
 

Kieran97

Well-Known Member
I went over to reddit to dig this out. A bit where some lad ranked all taoisigh and wrote a bit about them.

Little piece of advice. Say you’re a politician and they decide to make a TV series about your life. If the guy they cast to play you is Lord Petyr Baelish himself, consider that you may have been a shady motherfucker.
“I did warn you not to trust me.”
“I did warn you not to trust me.”

CJ was already fairly synonymous with shady motherfuckery before he even became Taoiseach. As Minister for Finance in the late sixties under Jack Lynch, Haughey became embroiled in the Arms Crisis. See, it was around this time that the Troubles were being particularly Troublesome, by which I mean things were threatening to blow up into a full on civil war and hundreds of Catholic refugees were fleeing south to escape the violence. Haughey and another minister named Neil Blaney were put in charge of a committee to distribute humanitarian aid to Catholic communities in Northern Ireland that were under siege and apparently at some point the group decided: “Know what this situation needs? Guns.”
Spongebob
Soooo…a plan was hatched to import weapons into the country to be given to the IRA with the help of a Belgian Nazi (I am not making any of that up).

While that plan would, no doubt, have worked BRILLIANTLY, the Garda Síochána (the fuzz) sussed it out and informed Lynch what Haughey had been up to. Lynch did……………….nothing, so the Gardaí instead went to our buddy Liam Cosgrave and essentially said “look, there’s all kinds of treasonous shady motherfuckery going on here, can SOMEBODY do some governing or is that too much to ask?” Cosgrave put pressure on Lynch and Haughey and his co-conspirators were arrested and sentenced to lengthy prison sentences for supporting terrorism.
Homer Laughing
No, of course not. Haughey was expelled from the cabinet but remained as a back bencher, slowly rebuilding his political influence and waiting for the right moment to strike like a cancer in remission. He was eventually recalled to the front bench in 1975, became Minister for Health in 1977 and after Lynch resigned in 1979 Haughey was chosen to succeed him as Taoiseach. The frustrating thing about Haughey is that, unlike Cowen, he absolutely had the ability and the intelligence to be a fantastic Taoiseach. He did really good work in the Ministry for Health, spear-heading the first anti-smoking campaigns and legalising contraception.
Thanks Charlie! No. Seriously. Thank you.
Thanks Charlie! No. Seriously. Thank you.

Plus, in a country where politicians tend to be less “Hollywood ugly” and more “circus ugly” he actually cut a rather dashing figure. He was charming and charismatic in a line of work where charisma and charm are in very short supply and he inspired incredible loyalty from many of his followers. But Haughey had ambitions and ego far beyond what could be satisfied by the premiership of a small, peripheral European state. Haughey dreamed of leveraging the relatively modest position of Taoiseach and becoming a statesman of global significance.

Know what’s crazy? He kinda…sorta…did? Unlike almost every other Taoiseach on this list, Haughey had a huge impact not just on Ireland but on the world at large, even though he’s certainly not famous outside of this island. How did that happen?

Okay, little bit of backstory required. And apologies, it involves the European Union which means it’s going to be super complicated.

See that circle? It's the starry rabbit hole of madness.
See that circle? It’s the starry rabbit hole of madness.

So, the upper house of the European Parliament is the Council of the European Union, and it’s run by the Presidency of the Council of the European Union, to be confused with the President of the European Council. Yes I said “to be confused” because face it, you’re going to confuse them and that was probably the point. Anyway. The presidency is rotating which means that every country in the EU gets a turn at basically running the entire continent.

And if you could not tell Greece we'd really appreciate it.
We keep sending Greece on a beer run when it’s their turn and if you could not tell them about this we’d all really appreciate it.

Right, so. In 1990 Ireland held the presidency and there was a big summit in Dublin to discuss piddling inconsequential political minutiae like trade reform and tarriffs and oh yeah THE BERLIN WALL HAS JUST COME DOWN REALITY AS WE KNOW IT HAS CRUMBLED WHAT DO WE DO!!!!?!

This might prove to be of some lasting significance.
This might prove to be of some lasting significance.

Weird as it might seem now, after the wall came down German reunification was by no means a sure thing. Most countries in Europe were decidedly less than giddy at the idea of Germany once again being large and in charge (jeez, you make one mistake). The British were particularly opposed, because Margaret Thatcher is a monster from European folklore who sneaks in through the cracks in the windows to feed on the tears of disobediant German children before snatching them away to her cottage in the forest that runs on chicken legs. The French, more understandably, were also opposed but more in a “well I suppose we could be convinced.” kind of way. What the French wanted was closer economic and political integration for Europe, essentially the basis for the modern EU and it was Haughey, in his capacity as president of the European presidency of the Council of the European Union council, who was able to get enough of the other nations on board in exchange for French support for German unity. This, then, means Haughey played a crucial role in both the reunification of Germany and the foundation of the European common currency, i.e. two of the most important events in the history of post-war Europe.

So why isn’t he further up the list? Well, not to get judgey or anything, but he was kind of a crook. And by “kind of” I mean “holy shit”.

Haughey was famous for buying things like fancy suits, race horses and…um…an island.

Haughey's island

Now, the Taoiseach’s salary is generous, but it’s not “Bond villain” generous so people were understandably confused as to how he could afford all these clothes, mammals and landmasses on a civil servant’s salary. Now, there were only really three possible scenarios for how Haughey got the money.

1) He saved up his confirmation money like his mother told him to.

2) He was too crafty for the fairy king.

3) He was on the take.

By the time a tornado of various scandals (a “scandalnado” if you will) had forced him from office, if was pretty obvious that he’d been accepting bribes from businessmen both domestic and foreign. However, this being Ireland, we decided to be sure in the usual manner; a series of tribunals that cost the taxpayer millions and were only completed several years after Haughey’s death in 2006. As is the way of our people.

Of the many, many, many shady deals that came to light, it emerged that Haughey had accepted a five figure sum from a Saudi businessman to support his application for Irish citizenship. This, to me, was the worst betrayal of all. Irishness is not something you can buy. It’s something that’s earned by Americans whose lives have spiralled out of control until the village judge orders them to rebuild the wall of the stern but kindly farmer they crashed into while DUI and over the course of the summer the American learns the simple ways of the villagers while in return helping them attract tourists to their sleepy hamlet until one day the farmer puts his hand on the American’s shoulders and mutters “Now, you are one of us.” That’s the way it’s supposed to be. And Charles J. Haughey forgot that.

Pros
As you can imagine, he’s quite popular in Germany.
As Irish politicians go, he could be fairly progressive. For example, he’s the reason why Irish artists don’t have to pay taxes on any income that comes from creative work. Which, as someone trying to make a living as a writer, I am quite okay with.
"Thanks Charlie! No. Seriously. Thank you."
“Thanks Charlie! No. Seriously. Thank you.”

He was pro-business to a degree that bordered on the unladylike but he did make Ireland a more attractive place to do business.
Margaret Thatcher hated him. Hated him. Loathed every particle in his being. So, you know. He can’t have been all bad.
Cons
Haughey often gets compared to Richard Nixon but in some ways he was an even more formidable an animal. Haughey had Nixon’s intelligence, drive, and ruthlessness but he also had something that Nixon famously lacked; Charm. But all of that talent, drive and ability was put in the service of one cause: Charles J Haughey. It’s often said of Nixon that he could have been a great man if he had been loved. Charles J. Haughey could have been a great man if he’d loved anything other than himself.
 

nashmach

Well-Known Member
Whatever Charlie did , was for the good of Charlie , and accidental if it the country benefited.

As for blaming the government for the current high Covid numbers,
Unless you had the Gestapo patrolling streets , ports , airports etc , you wouldn't have lower numbers .
The number of people who regard it their God given right to socialise, party , meet with friends , not to mention Larry The Leech 's grip of the meat industry , all mean it increased in leaps and bounds .

People are not willing to be responsible for their own actions.

We have so much dithering going on in my eyes at the moment and again tonight that I couldn't see Haughey tolerating that, that's more my point.

Everyone has to be responsible for their actions, I happened to be in town today, every second person not wearing a mask, it beggars belief.
 

nashmach

Well-Known Member
And the media making a circus out of it...
"Give us clarity, give us a plan". How can anyone give clarity or devise a plan when they don't know what way infection numbers are going to go? The media want the government to say something so that when it doesn't happen, they will be able to slate them in a few weeks time.

You can always have a conditional plan, if case numbers drop below X for a week in a row, Y will happen in 7 days. It's not that difficult really.

People need some hope soon.
 

Kieran97

Well-Known Member
You can always have a conditional plan, if case numbers drop below X for a week in a row, Y will happen in 7 days. It's not that difficult really.

People need some hope soon.
Boris has set a date to lift all restrictions on socialising I believe.

They needed something to distract from brexit and get national pride built up a bit and they're playing a blinder
 

nashmach

Well-Known Member
Boris has set a date to lift all restrictions on socialising I believe.

They needed something to distract from brexit and get national pride built up a bit and they're playing a blinder

It sounded very ambitious to be honest but Boris looked like he could do with the hairdressers opening soon :laugh:
 

johndeere6920s

Well-Known Member
I remember reading somewhere about the man that first brought Charolais cattle into Ireland back in the sixties. He had been years trying to get them in but the Dep stalling him. Eventually he was told to lodge x amount of money in some bank account. He deposited the money and straight away he got the go ahead from the Dep. Guess who was minister for agriculture at the time.
The man was rotten to the core.
Didn't the same happen not so long ago with those swivel splash plates?
The department wanted to run a test on it and needed x amount to do it off your man.
So the story goes anyway
 

muckymanor

Well-Known Member
You can always have a conditional plan, if case numbers drop below X for a week in a row, Y will happen in 7 days. It's not that difficult really.

People need some hope soon.
Were we not were given a conditional plan at the very start of this lockdown last December? Construction to reopen when 7 day average below 800. Schools to reopen when 7 day average below 500. Back to level 3 restrictions when 7 day average below 200. Pubs to be the last thing to open. The media have conveniently continued to ignore the above announcement which was made at the start of this lockdown because it doesn't make for hype and sensation. They prefer to play on every word that the taoiseach and every minister utters. The fact is that there is no set date. Already the reopening of construction has been set back because of the UK variant - something which was unknown when the above plan was made.

In fairness, if people got off Facebook for a while and stopped watching the news 6 times a day they would have an awful lot more hope. Whether we are at home or in work, life still goes on and people need to start leading their own lives rather than being lead by the media.
 

Mid cork

Well-Known Member
Didn't the same happen not so long ago with those swivel splash plates?
The department wanted to run a test on it and needed x amount to do it off your man.
So the story goes anyway
I doubt very much the Dep got the money from the man bringing in the cattle, I am sure it went straight into Haughey’s back pocket.
 

Bog Man

Well-Known Member
Were we not were given a conditional plan at the very start of this lockdown last December? Construction to reopen when 7 day average below 800. Schools to reopen when 7 day average below 500. Back to level 3 restrictions when 7 day average below 200. Pubs to be the last thing to open. The media have conveniently continued to ignore the above announcement which was made at the start of this lockdown because it doesn't make for hype and sensation. They prefer to play on every word that the taoiseach and every minister utters. The fact is that there is no set date. Already the reopening of construction has been set back because of the UK variant - something which was unknown when the above plan was made.

In fairness, if people got off Facebook for a while and stopped watching the news 6 times a day they would have an awful lot more hope. Whether we are at home or in work, life still goes on and people need to start leading their own lives rather than being lead by the media.
Life goes on but can come back to reality fairly quickly.
I was talking to a man yesterday and he had to head home to be with his 95 year old father and mid 80,s mother when they were due a phone call from the HSE because their home help had tested positive on a screening test.
 

muckymanor

Well-Known Member
Life goes on but can come back to reality fairly quickly.
I was talking to a man yesterday and he had to head home to be with his 95 year old father and mid 80,s mother when they were due a phone call from the HSE because their home help had tested positive on a screening test.
What I mean is that we have to live life and face the difficult situations. Not virtually, through the media or through anybody else.
 

whelan1

Well-Known Member
Mate of mine has meet mairead mc guinesses on flights over and back to Brussels many times and one 2 occasions been in the same row.said she was very friendly and would always speak if they met passing in the airport
She is very down to earth, no airs and graces there. Very hard worker too.
 

indecisive sort

Well-Known Member
I remember reading somewhere about the man that first brought Charolais cattle into Ireland back in the sixties. He had been years trying to get them in but the Dep stalling him. Eventually he was told to lodge x amount of money in some bank account. He deposited the money and straight away he got the go ahead from the Dep. Guess who was minister for agriculture at the time.
The man was rotten to the core.

" rotten to the core " is over the top

Nice people rarely get to lead countries, politics is filthy , Haughey was obviously corrupt but he had great vision , bad people can do great things, Tony Blair will never be forgiven by his country for Iraq but he did a great thing with Northern Ireland
 

13spanner

Well-Known Member
From the Irish independent

Charlie Haughey put his head around the door, pointed at Bertie Ahern and declared: "He's the man. He's the best, the most skilful, the most devious, and the most cunning of them all."

Bertie Ahern looked up, sighed and said quietly: "That's all I need."
 

Mid cork

Well-Known Member
" rotten to the core " is over the top

Nice people rarely get to lead countries, politics is filthy , Haughey was obviously corrupt but he had great vision , bad people can do great things, Tony Blair will never be forgiven by his country for Iraq but he did a great thing with Northern Ireland
There’s no way I would compare Tony Blair to Haughey. Blair has morals Hauhey had none. As to Iraq Bush was the ring leader there Blair just followed him.
 

indecisive sort

Well-Known Member
There’s no way I would compare Tony Blair to Haughey. Blair has morals Hauhey had none. As to Iraq Bush was the ring leader there Blair just followed him.

Surely you can't be serious?

Blair is a war criminal who sent a few thousand of his own nations soldiers to their death for a war based on lies

Claiming he meekly had to follow George Bush is ridiculous, France and Germany didn't join in

Margaret Thatcher was a more moral individual than Blair
 

Mid cork

Well-Known Member
I am not saying Blair had to follow Bush, but he did and it was a huge mistake on his behalf. Even if he didn’t back Bush, Bush would still have went ahead for whatever daft reason. Probably to get at the oil reserves in Iraq.
 
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