So who has experience of Red Clover

TMKF

TMKF

Well-Known Member
So as I understand it, its a pretty popular crop in tillage rotation for fixing N and its not uncommon to find grown as a nice high protein fodder.
So who has any experience with growing it in Irish conditions?

If anyone does a few quick questions;
1. Any issue with establishment?
2. What type of soil was it? Specifically pH and P/K Index?
3. Was there any drainage issues on the land?
 
TMKF said:
So as I understand it, its a pretty popular crop in tillage rotation for fixing N and its not uncommon to find grown as a nice high protein fodder.
So who has any experience with growing it in Irish conditions?

If anyone does a few quick questions;
1. Any issue with establishment?
2. What type of soil was it? Specifically pH and P/K Index?
3. Was there any drainage issues on the land?
Click to expand...

Sow as a grass/clover mix
ph needs to be right as does p and k also feed it plenty of p&k to keep it going
 
headcase said:
Sow as a grass/clover mix
ph needs to be right as does p and k also feed it plenty of p&k to keep it going
Click to expand...

From my reading it likes pH of 6.3ish but it'll tolerate from 6 to 6.6?

Hungry for P & K is it? You don't know offhand how many units?

What I was debating trying was a first year just RC as a protein crop as its harvested late and stitching in a ryegrass mix in year 2 and more in year 3?
 
Mine's a grass/red clover/white clover/lucerne mix,first time growing it.
To look at the mature crop the red clover is very apparent.

Soil test.

PH 7.39
P 3.5 Index 2
K 38.5 Index 1
Lime Req XSL
Plot Size Ha 1.61Ha
Date of test 30/7/2013

No nutrients added.

Some drains added during summer 2013,parts of this field were a pure swamp previously.
drainage generally not great,dark brown soil over grey lack.

Sowed in August 2013 by broadcasting followed by rolling.

Established very well,in October I let 11 store lambs into it,no meal,slaughtered in Feb/Mar 2014.

Got about 10000gals slurry March 2014

Mowed 11/6/2014 for 60 round bales of silage followed by 10000 gals slurry
I probably let this get too strong,should have been cut maybe a week or two earlier.
Some fairly woody stems in there but we'll know better at fodder time.
Also didn't wilt well due to weather and big swarth's so expecting a low DM or possibly dung if it didn't ensile well.

Mowed 25/7/2014 for 23 round bales of silage followed by 10000gals slurry
This got well wilted, care needed here because the valuable clover leaf wilts and would nearly blow away.

It could easily be cut again later if I wanted.

If you're interested I'll post the silage analysis when I get it done.

Needs to be minded,the stems are easily broken which kills the plant so no grazing with heavy animals and keep field operations to a minimum.

Pure red clover is not a good idea,needs the sugar from the grass to make good silage.

Very competitive,very few weeds visible in this field now,there were a few thistles in the first cut,second cut was very clean.

Really a short term ley,4-5 years possibly longer with care,it's first year is probably it's best.

Serious stuff to re-grow after cutting,the day after cutting the clover has a full three leaves out,in a few days the field is green again.This year really suited it with the heat.

I'll post some photos later if you want.

Hope this helps.
 
Some silage results;

silage sample.jpg
 
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No, see the cutting date, that's about several weeks too late.

However I didn't think ground conditions were with me any earlier, I'll have to be more brave next time.

A massive crop,15 bales to the acre first cut so that may be some compensation.
 
Mr Jay said:
No, see the cutting date, that's about several weeks too late.

However I didn't think ground conditions were with me any earlier, I'll have to be more brave next time.

A massive crop,15 bales to the acre first cut so that may be some compensation.
Click to expand...
How has the red clover mix gone for you since that time @Mr Jay. Or did you ever proceed any further with it @TMKF
 
JOHNNY BOY said:
How has the red clover mix gone for you since that time @Mr Jay. Or did you ever proceed any further with it @TMKF
Click to expand...
Hi,
it's still going strong. Got two cuts from it last year and could have had a third but instead a few lambs were kept on it over the winter .
The cattle do very well on it and leave only the biggest woodiest stalks behind(which shouldn't be there).
.
This year it was cut on the 24 May and needs to be cut again as soon as I get a chance.

I'm still impressed by how early in spring it gets moving and it's yield even though I suspect it's starting to decline a bit this year.

It certainly needs to be considered in any reseeding plan.

Hope this helps, ask me anything else if you like.
 
Mr Jay said:
Hi,
it's still going strong. Got two cuts from it last year and could have had a third but instead a few lambs were kept on it over the winter .
The cattle do very well on it and leave only the biggest woodiest stalks behind(which shouldn't be there).
.
This year it was cut on the 24 May and needs to be cut again as soon as I get a chance.

I'm still impressed by how early in spring it gets moving and it's yield even though I suspect it's starting to decline a bit this year.

It certainly needs to be considered in any reseeding plan.

Hope this helps, ask me anything else if you like.
Click to expand...
How would it work overseeded on grass. For e.g a 50% ratio to mix with the grass. Any cases of bloat in the cattle when grazing it.
 
JOHNNY BOY said:
Or did you ever proceed any further with it @TMKF
Click to expand...
I didnt yet. But been gathering advice all the while so I know what I'm getting myself into.
One piece of advice I did get was that its vulnerable to being broken so to be very careful when spreading slurry as it'll nearly die out in the tramlines.
Not an issue in the field I'm planning but in a tight field it might be an issue with lots of turning.
Probably go ahead with it in the next silage field I reseed
 
Resurrecting a old thread here.... Red clover silage anybody growing it, how have you found it, Seems to be excellent feed at lower cost than grass silage why is it not more popular? I have a sizeable enough protein demand as feeding 18kg if beet and 4.5kg if wholecrop wheat, looking at better, cheaper and more marketable ways ( see delicious beef in classifieds) of supplying it.
 
WestCorkBoy said:
Resurrecting a old thread here.... Red clover silage anybody growing it, how have you found it, Seems to be excellent feed at lower cost than grass silage why is it not more popular? I have a sizeable enough protein demand as feeding 18kg if beet and 4.5kg if wholecrop wheat, looking at better, cheaper and more marketable ways ( see delicious beef in classifieds) of supplying it.
Click to expand...

I grew it in set aside land before, I liked it for the land but can’t remember if we cut anything off it.

Red Clover fixes twice the N that white clover does.

It’s growing point is higher than white so can be more easily damaged by poaching or tight cutting.

Teagasc have actually just bred a very impressive new Red Clover. It’s called Fearga. They hope to sell a lot of it in Europe where Red Clover is a bigger crop.

Commercial seed won’t be available until 2021 though.
 
CORK said:
I grew it in set aside land before, I liked it for the land but can’t remember if we cut anything off it.

Red Clover fixes twice the N that white clover does.

It’s growing point is higher than white so can be more easily damaged by poaching or tight cutting.

Teagasc have actually just bred a very impressive new Red Clover. It’s called Fearga. They hope to sell a lot of it in Europe where Red Clover is a bigger crop.

Commercial seed won’t be available until 2021 though.
Click to expand...
Just googled Fearga there.. some very impressive trials results. Pity about 2021, I'd like to try a small bit next spring and prob bale it, reckon I'd need 20 acres to substitute my total protein need but wouldn't jump in that deep at the start.
 
WestCorkBoy said:
Just googled Fearga there.. some very impressive trials results. Pity about 2021, I'd like to try a small bit next spring and prob bale it, reckon I'd need 20 acres to substitute my total protein need but wouldn't jump in that deep at the start.
Click to expand...

I’ll see if any trial seed is available
 
my stand ran out 3 year ago
I want more in but haven't grassed anything down yet
i'm hoping to get the farm business grant early next year and get a slot seeder and introduce more clovers in the fields here,grazing and cutting as don't fancy going the full hog on a reseed
 
Great crop for good quality bulk and protein, but it can be hard on soil carbon as it produces so much N. I had it in rented ground a few years ago, that I no longer have. Was happy with it.

One this are you trying to make wholecrop and beet fit into a diet, more so that having an easier to work diet?
 
Ozzy Scott said:
Great crop for good quality bulk and protein, but it can be hard on soil carbon as it produces so much N. I had it in rented ground a few years ago, that I no longer have. Was happy with it.

One this are you trying to make wholecrop and beet fit into a diet, more so that having an easier to work diet?
Click to expand...
I grow the crops I make most money from for me that's beet, s wheat w barley. I am not exposed to feed price volatility, or grain prices on the tillage side. The diet works well, I am basically looking at changing the he grass silage partially to red clover, they are not eating a large amount of grain 3.5 kgs urea treated barley, with protein topped up with soya, first stop would be to cut out the soya, second to just feed straight rolled barley rather than urea treated looking to tweak what's there already, see what red clover can bring to rotations and soil, save money and make the direct selling greener by eliminating GM ingredients, and soya is a dirty word in many consumers minds.

If red clover is hard on carbon reserves I presume FYM would be the way to go....
 
Ozzy Scott said:
Great crop for good quality bulk and protein, but it can be hard on soil carbon as it produces so much N. I had it in rented ground a few years ago, that I no longer have. Was happy with it.

One this are you trying to make wholecrop and beet fit into a diet, more so that having an easier to work diet?
Click to expand...
Any harder than spreading 175 units on silage ground over a season
 
WestCorkBoy said:
I grow the crops I make most money from for me that's beet, s wheat w barley. I am not exposed to feed price volatility, or grain prices on the tillage side. The diet works well, I am basically looking at changing the he grass silage partially to red clover, they are not eating a large amount of grain 3.5 kgs urea treated barley, with protein topped up with soya, first stop would be to cut out the soya, second to just feed straight rolled barley rather than urea treated looking to tweak what's there already, see what red clover can bring to rotations and soil, save money and make the direct selling greener by eliminating GM ingredients, and soya is a dirty word in many consumers minds.

If red clover is hard on carbon reserves I presume FYM would be the way to go....
Click to expand...

I hear you, just from past personal experience, I finished up trying to accommodate ingredients that I may have been better to forget about in the first place, namely maize, but also too much farmer work with beet. But everyone's system is different.

Do you think your future customers may push for "grass fed" and having to go back growing super silage to sq that circle. On saying that I have plenty of grassfed beef (only milk repalcer and 50kgs grain in life) and no one wants it so why bother produce such a product
 
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