the journal this week

Ugo Schtiglitz

Well-Known Member
At the end of the day, Ryan and Europe can sell us whatever narrative they like. As long as Europe continue to have heavy industry that exports to all corners of the world and import beef, soya and other foodstuffs from places like South America where the rainforest if being burned to produce these crops, then any proposal that they make to limit Irish Agricultural production is complete thrash.
That's the real contradiction. We'll have no beef but happy to outsource production and dirty industry to someplace else.
 

Rusty Spade

Well-Known Member
The greens are the worst party in most countries. Sure they were one of the sole causes for the bush fires in Australia which had massive consequences on the environment and people they claim to protect. They banned burn offs which were controlled fires used to stop big fires from occurring which led to there being nothing in the way of stopping a fire if it did start which it obviously did. Ryan's doing the exact same thing here bar with agriculture and local industries, we won't have a leg to stand on in the next recession.
They shouldn't be, though. Farmers and a mature scientific based Green Party should make very easy bedfellows. But when the majority of dialog points at farming being the problem, that narrative becomes fixed in the publics mind.

MF240s post above about coal is a great example, the national herd must be reduced but we can import coal from Colombia for less than we can produce our own or cut turf for?
 

muckymanor

Well-Known Member
MF240s post above about coal is a great example, the national herd must be reduced but we can import coal from Colombia for less than we can produce our own or cut turf for?

Isn't it very evident then that trade and trade deals for industry trumps agriculture and the environment. In fact, the problem with industry is two fold - they are big emitters of CO2 and other pollutants while at the same time they are influencing government to pawn off agriculture (which has existed since the beginning of man) so that they can sell their industrial products into countries in a trade deal which sees us import food from these countries which was not produced in as green of manner as we can produce food in our own country.

Europe and the Green Party are pushing this green agenda which they claim is totally about improving the environment. But the simple fact is that it has very little to do with the environment and everything to do with making money.

The Greens have sold their souls to Europe. They are well aware that Europe's Environmental push is about making money but the Greens want to piggyback it in order to achieve the environmental targets that their members want. But are their members so fickle that they are willing to sacrifice agriculture as we know it in Europe and Ireland while at the same time meeting our food requirements by importing food which is not sustainably produced?

Food needs to get scarce. There won't be much point owning a VW, Audi or BMW if you don't have the energy to steer it because of starvation!
 

MeathMassey3

Well-Known Member
They shouldn't be, though. Farmers and a mature scientific based Green Party should make very easy bedfellows. But when the majority of dialog points at farming being the problem, that narrative becomes fixed in the publics mind.

MF240s post above about coal is a great example, the national herd must be reduced but we can import coal from Colombia for less than we can produce our own or cut turf for?
I dont want to sound stupid but there has to be brown envelopes going round above
 

MeathMassey3

Well-Known Member
Isn't it very evident then that trade and trade deals for industry trumps agriculture and the environment. In fact, the problem with industry is two fold - they are big emitters of CO2 and other pollutants while at the same time they are influencing government to pawn off agriculture (which has existed since the beginning of man) so that they can sell their industrial products into countries in a trade deal which sees us import food from these countries which was not produced in as green of manner as we can produce food in our own country.

Europe and the Green Party are pushing this green agenda which they claim is totally about improving the environment. But the simple fact is that it has very little to do with the environment and everything to do with making money.

The Greens have sold their souls to Europe. They are well aware that Europe's Environmental push is about making money but the Greens want to piggyback it in order to achieve the environmental targets that their members want. But are their members so fickle that they are willing to sacrifice agriculture as we know it in Europe and Ireland while at the same time meeting our food requirements by importing food which is not sustainably produced?

Food needs to get scarce. There won't be much point owning a VW, Audi or BMW if you don't have the energy to steer it because of starvation!
That's it. Sure look at the tractor protest last year. Although I may have disagreed with some parts of it, it was still relevant to raise awareness for the neglegence to rural ireland and what was the only thing the Dubliners could think off. Not oh no this is awfull and we're going to stand by the farmers. No it was these stinking culchies are holding up my day. It's just mind boggling rural ireland is like a while different country compared to Dublin.
 

Joseph 88

Well-Known Member
That's it. Sure look at the tractor protest last year. Although I may have disagreed with some parts of it, it was still relevant to raise awareness for the neglegence to rural ireland and what was the only thing the Dubliners could think off. Not oh no this is awfull and we're going to stand by the farmers. No it was these stinking culchies are holding up my day. It's just mind boggling rural ireland is like a while different country compared to Dublin.
I don't think that's the best example. All that did was inconvenience thousands of people for the sake of it. Half the "protesters" didn't know what they were protesting, Just an opportunity to show off their aul lads new tractor.
 

Rusty Spade

Well-Known Member
I dont want to sound stupid but there has to be brown envelopes going round above
It doesn't need brown envelopes to go around. Those NGOs are financed in part by Government and in part by believers in their stories. So any news item has to say how bad X is, in this case farming is X, and take the story to the furthest limit they possibly can to attract both Government support and private support.
After that, they have to continue the same tactics to get continued support but they now have to make the story sound even worse so they can at least keep the same levels of funding and actually increase their funding over time.
An Taisce would be a body that has fine tuned this model of funding.
Have you ever hear any publicly funded body say they have achieved their aims and now require no more support?
 

MeathMassey3

Well-Known Member
I don't think that's the best example. All that did was inconvenience thousands of people for the sake of it. Half the "protesters" didn't know what they were protesting, Just an opportunity to show off their aul lads new tractor.
That's the big problem i had with it. Clueless Lads treating it like some big tractor run and the lads that were giving out were driving around in brand new big flash yolks which deffenitely didn't scream ' poor farmer'. Great message and idea, poorly executed
 

indecisive sort

Well-Known Member
There is definitely a constructed narrative where agriculture is to blame. The green agenda is riven with contradictions, that play to their target demographic who are largely urban and middle class. We in agriculture have been too slow in getting the pragmatic message of agricultural carbon sequestration out there to contest the space. The problem as I see it is that farmers generally have a very good bullshit meter. And most of the metrics that are used for carbon skew in favour of an urban consumerist lifestyle that feeds an economy based on consuming a lot of shit that no-one really needs, and is largely based on bullshit. We don't like producing more bullshit to argue with.
I wouldn't really mind the sensationalism of the journal either. They have a habit of painting a big disaster picture to weaken your resolve to actually stop buying the rag. We all know how it is... go to the shop on the hunt for a value pack of wispa gold and a packet of fags... pass the news stand....... see journal, quick glance.... some front page banner headline that says we're all f**ked.... reluctantly buy it to see how f$%ked you actually are... buy it ... read a bit.... not as bad as you thought.... feel cheated until same happens next Thursday.

There is a schism in the Green Party right now, endless infighting, they will loose half there seats in the next election so I wouldn't worry too much about the Greens

SF are more populist than FF ever were, they won't go after agriculture re_ climate change as they have a substantial farm vote in the likes of Monaghan and Donegal

They'll tax the ar5e off anyone earning 50 k and over though including farmers
 

MeathMassey3

Well-Known Member
Be interesting to know what Eamon Ryan was doing between his 2 spells in the Dail and the amount of lobbying his Departments get and from whoom??
God only knows, would be great to see how he makes his money because he's not the brightest man going. I'd say it could be the Vegans of the dail if there is any doing all the lobbying for him.😂
 

Canyanero

Well-Known Member
God only knows, would be great to see how he makes his money because he's not the brightest man going. I'd say it could be the Vegans of the dail if there is any doing all the lobbying for him.😂
Don’t be fooling yourself, he might come across as stupid, but he’s not thick. He started a very successful cycling holiday company and was part owner of a very busy bike shop. A quick google suggests his net worth is between 1 and 5 million.
 

MeathMassey3

Well-Known Member
Don’t be fooling yourself, he might come across as stupid, but he’s not thick. He started a very successful cycling holiday company and was part owner of a very busy bike shop. A quick google suggests his net worth is between 1 and 5 million.
Holy moly. What's his problem with farmers then.
 
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