Water

[muckymanor]

With water charges coming in from October 31st, what are people going to do?

It looks like Irish Water are going to be charging €2.80 per m3. You could be looking at a bill of thousands of Euro if you use mains water on your farm.

We are currently on a private group water scheme which buys water from the county council. Right now we get a free allowance of almost 300m3 per year - so we rarely have to pay anything more than a few euro per year for it. Now that Irish Water have taken over, our free allowance per house is to be reduced from 300m3 to 30m3 and we are to be charged €2.80 per m3 above this. Our scheme is very old and has no meters other than the main bulk meter. Therefore the total bill will have to be split equally over the 70 connections in the group as there is no way to determine what each individual uses. We have 3 connections on the scheme and based on this year's usage level, it is likely that we will have to pay €2100 for our water in 2015. That serves 2 dwelling houses and 1 field which has 1 drinker which 10 cows use for less than 5 weeks in the year. The rest of the farm is served from a river which flows through it and we use pasture pumps so that cattle don't have to go into the river.

We have a bored well on the farm from the 1970's, but it has severe hard water. It looks likely that we will have to invest in a pump for it and lay piping the 800m from the well to the dwelling houses and install a water softener somewhere along the way.

It would cost less to do this than to pay the water fees for 1 year!

How are others fixed?

 

[vanderbadger]

have a well these last few years after numerous disputes with council..b4stards!!
had to go fairly deep though, down near 400ft to get water, hit a massive well but have to put up with sulfur smell, have to run it thru a filter type device going to house so the wells arent always plain sailing either
i dont see how they are going to manage those smaller water schemes though, sure there will be murder when they try and divide up bills among people hanging off schemes

 

[muckymanor]

have a well these last few years after numerous disputes with council..b4stards!!
had to go fairly deep though, down near 400ft to get water, hit a massive well but have to put up with sulfur smell, have to run it thru a filter type device going to house so the wells arent always plain sailing either
i dont see how they are going to manage those smaller water schemes though, sure there will be murder when they try and divide up bills among people hanging off schemes

That's the problem. They won't take over the smaller private group schemes, but the schemes have to buy their water from irish water and run the scheme themselves, collecting money from each member and sorting out disputes themselves. These are the sort of schemes where a couple of the farmers have no quams about putting a few feet of water into their slatted tank from the tap for agitating. Everyone pays the same amount - quite unfair really!

 

[nashmach]

How long till we see charges for those that have wells too?

Aka the septic tank registration fee saga!

 

[Ozzy Scott]

€2.80 a cub meter, thats nearly cheaper than providing your own and people are complaining

 

[JohnBoy]

I hadnt realised that was going to happen to group schemes! that's a balls.

Surely it would be in the interest of the scheme's members to fund the installation of meters. anyone who puts in a meter pays per use and the others share what's left. You wont be long sorting the problem that way.

Also if Irish water are not providing individual meters will the group schemes be supplied at a reduced rate?

Depends how active your group scheme is. I know the one my folks are on is very active, doesnt charge much, but the money is re-invested every year in maintenance and even the odd new well/pump as required.


At our house I'm putting in rainwater harvesting off the shed for outside tap water and on the farm we've always had a well.

 

[scottie]

Funny enuf I'm boring a well here today, our own well started going dry in September after a motorway was built nearby so every year we would connect to the local scheme for a month or two to take the pressure off.. Then meters went in around Xmas as we were told there was a much higher bill for ag users so I said just bore.. Costing a tenner a foot.. Should meet water around 120 feet.. Pump will be around 1200-1500 all going beside the old pump house so minimal disturbance. I think 3000 inc vat should see us out and will save me a lot of hassle down the road..

 

[muckymanor]

€2.80 is about twice the price of providing water yourself.

Our scheme is 40 years old. It has little leaks all over the place. The scheme has to pay for whatever amount of water passes through the main bulk meter - not what individuals use. So individual metering would still see a shortfall in revenue.


The scheme has been offered the opportunity to avail of funding to upgrade it and remove all of the small leaks - 85% funding. However, the majority of members declared that they did not want to pay for that so it's a non runner. It would cost approx €500 per house for the upgrade.

The upgrade grant won't cover water meters.

Very stubborn members in our group who cannot see that spending a small amount in the short while could lead to major savings in the long term!

Johnboy, our scheme has charged virtually noting up to now. But from the end of this year they will have to pay for most of the water that they use - so will the scheme that your folks are on. €2.80 per m3. Our scheme will have a water bill in excess of €40k every year! It's worth your folks while doing some homework on it!

 

[JohnBoy]

Their scheme provides all it's own water, not only that but I think they might even have been exporting water to the council at one stage.

like I say, they're quite proactive.

 

[muckymanor]

Their scheme provides all it's own water, not only that but I think they might even have been exporting water to the council at one stage.

like I say, they're quite proactive.

Oh they have a well or a resevoir and they pump their own water to their members?

That's different allright!

 

[diesel power]

How long till we see charges for those that have wells too?

Aka the septic tank registration fee saga!

I'm not worried in the slightest if they want to charge those of us who have our own water nash. As far as I'm concerned if they do that then their going to be responsible for the electricity to run the pump, 1500 odd to replace the pump or whatever a deep well pump costs and the pressure vessel. Probably end up cheaper then doing all I mentioned myself

 

[nashmach]

I'm not worried in the slightest if they want to charge those of us who have our own water nash. As far as I'm concerned if they do that then their going to be responsible for the electricity to run the pump, 1500 odd to replace the pump or whatever a deep well pump costs and the pressure vessel. Probably end up cheaper then doing all I mentioned myself

I'd like to see you arguing that with big Phil

 

[diesel power]

I'd like to see you arguing that with big Phil

Well they can't have it both ways. I'm already paying a household charge and septic tank charge and nothing back while a towns person has public lighting,bins and sewage. I've no objection to paying my bit to get the country back on it's feet but there are limits.

 

[nashmach]

Well they can't have it both ways. I'm already paying a household charge and septic tank charge and nothing back while a towns person has public lighting,bins and sewage. I've no objection to paying my bit to get the country back on it's feet but there are limits.

The townies will say back we are getting a lot more roads done

You can see I've had this argument already!

 

[diesel power]

By jaysus they want to come out round here and look at the roads and say that. Anyhow that money isn't for the roads, thats what the car tax is meant to do cough cough.
I've had this argument too with townie folk haha.

 

[tinman]

I'm not worried in the slightest if they want to charge those of us who have our own water nash. As far as I'm concerned if they do that then their going to be responsible for the electricity to run the pump, 1500 odd to replace the pump or whatever a deep well pump costs and the pressure vessel. Probably end up cheaper then doing all I mentioned myself

i have a funny feeling they will tax the water wells.
it ill take the gloss off it if they do.

and if they do, they will take it off you, whether you like it or not me boy...:D

 

[Vry]

By jaysus they want to come out round here and look at the roads and say that. Anyhow that money isn't for the roads, thats what the car tax is meant to do cough cough.
I've had this argument too with townie folk haha.

Had to patch our road the other day with 804 it was gone that bad. I know you shouldn't and could be liable in the event of an accident but it was unbearable in any vehicle .

 

[bruceythom]

We have 3 wells here between us, the main one that's supplying the farm has a 10,000 litre reservoir which it fills on the night rate electric. Gravity fed during the day. The pump that we picked was the cheapest to run on a m³ basis. We have 1¼" piping coming from the reservoir out to the fields with 1" branching off from there up to the troughs. No big pressure (maybe 1bar) but serious volume. A 40 gallon trough is well able to keep 100 cows happy here so we don't need huge water troughs that are full of stagnant water that needs to be replaced. As far as the council are concerned, we have one well.

Machinery to dairy farmers is like razor blades to toddlers.

 

[AYF]

Just bought shares in water meters.

Can buy a water meter off the shelf here for about £50, its what we use if we need to buy water from neighbours in some of our remote fields. Looks like the future for you lads.

 

[S.Burke]

We have well, was talking to a friend who is a bit closer to the town and also has one, and they got a letter about water charges and saying that they couldn't install a water meter at their residence so they would be charged a standard rate, So he rang them, and when he informed them about not being on the mains and having the well he was told that he would have to pay anyway because he was taking water from the water table.

what ever way you go they want to screw you.

i've also heard that since 'irish water' is a private company you only enter into a contract with them if you actually pay, so if you dont they cant actually force you to as you haven't entered any contract with them... as i say this is what i've heard not sure on the validity of it.

 

[nashmach]

We have well, was talking to a friend who is a bit closer to the town and also has one, and they got a letter about water charges and saying that they couldn't install a water meter at their residence so they would be charged a standard rate, So he rang them, and when he informed them about not being on the mains and having the well he was told that he would have to pay anyway because he was taking water from the water table.

what ever way you go they want to screw you.

i've also heard that since 'irish water' is a private company you only enter into a contract with them if you actually pay, so if you dont they cant actually force you to as you haven't entered any contract with them... as i say this is what i've heard not sure on the validity of it.

That first bit is hardly right anyway - tossers!

 

[drew]

Jesus at €2.80 a m3 you wouldn't be long paying off a well.... In the last month we've used around 130m3 of water, not including the house I'll add, i look it up later and I'll have a ball park of the leccy used to pump it to as have meters for both...

 

[Funkeyfarmer]

Had to patch our road the other day with 804 it was gone that bad. I know you shouldn't and could be liable in the event of an accident but it was unbearable in any vehicle .

Managed to get a trailer load of cold tar last spring off the local council to do the poor Lane at least if they made that more available it might help with the roads

 

[muckymanor]

We have well, was talking to a friend who is a bit closer to the town and also has one, and they got a letter about water charges and saying that they couldn't install a water meter at their residence so they would be charged a standard rate, So he rang them, and when he informed them about not being on the mains and having the well he was told that he would have to pay anyway because he was taking water from the water table.

That's Bull! If you have a well you do not have to pay. Anyone that told him otherwise is wrong!

what ever way you go they want to screw you.

i've also heard that since 'irish water' is a private company you only enter into a contract with them if you actually pay, so if you dont they cant actually force you to as you haven't entered any contract with them... as i say this is what i've heard not sure on the validity of it.

Not correct. If you use their produce then it is assumed that you have read their terms and conditions and accepted them. So once you turn on the tap you are engaging with them and you are obliged to pay for it. If you don't want to pay for it don't turn on the tap!

If I go into supermacs and stick my head under the coke tap without ordering anything or saying anything to anyone then I haven't entered any contract with them (verbal or written) but what I'm doing is stealing unless I pay for it!

 

[Bog Man]

If you are in a catchment area for any reservoir or pumping station owned and used by Irish Water you can expect them to take an interest in how you use your land . If it costs them extra to purify water that you have contaminated they will expect you to pay and to modify your future behavior .