Winter wheat 2020

Discussion in 'Tillage' started by Louis mc, Sep 10, 2019.

  1. mixedbag

    mixedbag Well-Known Member

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    I’d say being able to control the application of water is a huge benefit, effectively allows you to use the nutrients more efficiently and greatly reduce the risk of plant getting a period of checked growth
     
  2. 6600

    6600 Well-Known Member

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    Looked it up there, looks a nice spot if the wind is coming from the land. Next stop Antarctica! Septoria pressure be low!
     

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  3. nashmach

    nashmach Well-Known Member

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    How far below the long term average are you Sheebadog at that?
     
  4. Sheebadog

    Sheebadog Well-Known Member

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    Back a ton Nash. In fairness I’m delighted with the yields and quality considering that 20-30% rotted over winter. Finished with January sown wheat yesterday and it cut 8.1t but the protein was only 10.1% so it’ll have to be mixed with the winter sown wheat.
     
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  5. CORK

    CORK Well-Known Member

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    That’s definitely true if one is in a region of water shortage. Things become more controlled.
    If it was a low rainfall area, you might be able to time the irrigation with your disease sprays so as to control infection events?

    That said, the previous record (and a number of other yield records in recent years) was achieved in the north east of England where irrigation wasn’t involved.

    The way I look at these record attempts and achievements is to see what we can learn from it to maximise our own results.
    Attention to detail is a foundation of these achievements.
     
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  6. CORK

    CORK Well-Known Member

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    Probably going to put the kiss of death on it by saying this but I’m relatively optimistic about winter wheat over the next few years.

    Im aware of a number of new varieties and fungicides that look like they might lift the game a bit.

    We were fighting a loosing battle in terms of Septoria control but I know of at least 3 new actives that are giving a big jump in control.
    One of them also seems to be giving improved Fusarium control which has long been one of the final hurdles where a wheat crop can fall (all the more so here by the coast).
    I’ve seen a couple of the actives in work on Septoria in the past week and I am impressed.

    Straw has been an important part of the financial sum in grain growing but I’m not interested in growing a load of winter barley only to rely on the vagaries of that market.

    My plan is to continue with broadleaf break crops like WOSR & Beans (winter/spring) and first and second wheats along with spring barley for malting or seed.
    Now that I’ve written it down, I’m sure to fail :laugh:
     
  7. st1979

    st1979 Well-Known Member

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    The last bit interested me. I am on heavy clay soil and was thinking of wheat, wheat, beans, wheat, wheat, wosr rotation.
     
  8. CORK

    CORK Well-Known Member

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    Second wheat isn’t without its challenges and neither is getting WOSR sown after wheat.
    Winter beans & WOSR too close can encourage Sclerotinia but spring beans less so.
    Wet winters can also scupper plans but I’m considering the rotation that you suggest (or something similar).
     
  9. Bog Man

    Bog Man Well-Known Member

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    I am less obsessed with wall to wall winter wheat than when I was a young lad in my fifties. I still have ten times as much Wheat as Barley.
     
  10. st1979

    st1979 Well-Known Member

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    Any other options for heavy land.
     
  11. CORK

    CORK Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes heavy land might best left till early April for spring barley. It very much depends how heavy it is.
     
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  12. nashmach

    nashmach Well-Known Member

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    I just hope new varieties and fungicides are at a reasonable price and won't erode margins more :undecided:
     
  13. CORK

    CORK Well-Known Member

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    Surely it’s cost vs benefit as opposed to the simple cost of any input?

    I don’t mind spending a bit more on a crop if it’s going to give extra profit over where I otherwise was.
    We are definitely slipping backwards with the wheat chemistry we currently have. To my eye, wheat leaves are dying off too early in most years; that’s grain filling time lost.
     
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  14. nashmach

    nashmach Well-Known Member

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    We are saying the same thing pretty much! I was saying same benefit for similar cost, you are saying extra benefit but extra cost.

    Whether either of us will get what we want remains to be seen
     
  15. Barrowsider

    Barrowsider Well-Known Member

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    There's no doubt every input applied should provide a return but it's very difficult do a cost vs benefit analysis for a preventative fungicide applied in early May as so many factors that are out of our control. If disease pressure is low during the weeks following application or a drought significantly reduces yield potential or the bottom falls out of grain market the benefits of applying that "bells and whistles" fungicide in May can evaporate before harvest. Unfortunately we only know this with hindsight.

    The first of the new generation wheat fungicides are priced ridiculously. I have no doubt it's fantastic chemistry. But in this part of the country where we haven't had much issue controlling Septoria over the last few years with existing chemistry, the extra spend can rarely be justified, particularly at current grain prices. Perhaps in other parts of the country it's a different story.

    Cereal chemistry spend is down significantly this year, the reduced winter acreage is a factor but a lot of growers have also realised that applying expensive inputs to thin or drought stricken crops is throwing money down the drain. I think it's heartening to see more growers altering their spend to suit their crops.

    Now that I've all that off my chest I'll go grease the combine.
     
  16. CORK

    CORK Well-Known Member

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    I can’t argue with anything you say except that greasing the combine at 11pm isn’t fun :cool1:

    It always impresses me just how much less Septoria pressure crops are under as you move from Kilkenny city north, they just get cleaner and cleaner as you head up through Kildare to Louth & Meath.
    Some have said that we shouldn’t be growing winter wheat down here, such is our Septoria pressure but it is often a good profitable crop.

    I have no doubt that better chemistry will give a worthwhile yield response down here whereas the existing chemistry may well do a perfectly adequate job in the lower pressure regions.
     
  17. kildare

    kildare Well-Known Member

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    Where I am standing is a 3 m strip which received no sprays this year as a trial of course. To the left is slightly greener. IMG_20200713_173625.jpg
     
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  18. Oakley

    Oakley Well-Known Member

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    This had revystar for its T2 @ 1.1 L/ha plus multisite
    20200714_194938.jpg 20200714_194905.jpg 20200714_195042.jpg
     
  19. no name

    no name Well-Known Member

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    Exceptional looking crop, now that will yield well :Thumbp2:. I generally use the newest chemistry especially on wheat almost irrespective of the extra cost, perhaps this year it won't pay any extra but who knows the day you're spraying. Only for I knew last autumn revosol was going to be available my wheat acres would have been halved, just to risky. Last year my wheat was full of septoria despite full rates so if this year had been wet those fungicides a year further on would have slipped further.
     
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  20. Oakley

    Oakley Well-Known Member

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    Couldn't agree more, if new chemistry hadn't to have been coming I'd def have been reducing wheat area as all the triazoles and sdhi have slipped too much and we get high septoria pressure in these parts.
    Have spring wheat here and in general would be happy enough with it , its fungicide spend would be less than half that of its winter counterpart but when all the figures are totted up give me a crop of WW anyday over it
     
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  21. Barrowsider

    Barrowsider Well-Known Member

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    IMG_8671.jpg IMG_8675.jpg
    December sown Costello on top, October sown Diego below. T2 consisted of multi site along with zinc and boron (to prevent premature senescence in dry weather). No triazole or SDHI as Septoria wasn't active which puts €60-€80/ha in my pocket rather than the merchant. It's both a risky strategy and a rare opportunity in our climate but I think it has worked out ok.
     
  22. Blackwater boy

    Blackwater boy Moderator

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    What did you put out for a head spray?
     
  23. CORK

    CORK Well-Known Member

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    Granted, going completely untreated isn’t something that a wheat grower would do but I thought I’d show just how devastating Septoria can be in this region.

    The 4 pics are winter wheat, sown in mid November in what I would call a low pressure year (late planting date followed by a very dry April & May)
    .
    2 pics treated (T1 Librax, T2 Revystar, T3 Prosaro).
    and 2 pics untreated.
    Just a random variety in the variety trial.

    C40CBA0C-8784-4F16-B845-CAADE77B09CE.jpeg 9F1BC380-4059-49BD-9D43-35187EC4176B.jpeg 9250FD02-E24B-4796-A6FE-604A4E6BF7E4.jpeg FB7B6185-51F9-4071-B685-E78DB1DD51FB.jpeg
     
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  24. Barrowsider

    Barrowsider Well-Known Member

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    1.1L Prosaro and Epsotop magnesium salts.
     
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  25. CORK

    CORK Well-Known Member

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    Doing Septoria scores in the trial plots this afternoon. December sown with no fungicide whatsoever.

    Most varieties eaten alive with Septoria but the very odd one showing really encouraging genetic resistance. This is probably the most resistant variety that I’ve ever had through the trials. Both are still just coded.

    All the disease pictured is Septoria, no Rust present.

    The future will have to be a combination of fungicide & genetics so both can protect each other from the development of resistance in the disease.

    9D7995BE-856D-4FDE-9D2C-828596FF5C7F.jpeg D4221875-EB78-4666-B2B5-25EE9E7F7F1B.jpeg
     
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