Winter Wheat 2021

CORK

Well-Known Member
Slug numbers have exploded the last few days, I thought they were under control but set more traps and had a good root around today, one place sowed a week ago has a lot of seed following since it budded 2 days ago, only had 3 to 4 slugs in the traps but they're very active under the ground
Major hammering here after WOSR, grain hollowing mainly and it started within 2 days of planting.
 

Masseyrk662

Well-Known Member
View attachment 84404


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illuminate wheat all the way from Ballycotton. Planted the 15th October. Slugs numbers have exploded in the last 3 days, going to have to pellet this and some belfry barley tomorrow. Hadn’t spread pellets since 2014 since we gave up OSR. Wheat is sluggish enough, the storms must have knocked the jizz out of the seed a bit compared to the winter barley but plenty of it here, sown at 190kgs/ha tho.
That crop looks super, mine is around the same as that growth wise but way thinner sadly, crows still pulling it up too
 

Bcl

Well-Known Member
Is anyone noticing an issue with vigour in wheat this year, costello sown 4 weeks into good conditions after osr and it seems like it's standing still.
Germination was good , the plants are there despite slugs and crows but there's no power in the plants at all. I kind of have half an idea that it's 2019 seed I got, i noticed on 2 half tonne bags the remains of stitching where it looked like label had been ripped off and new one stitched on, maybe some other explanation but .......
Crop is completely even across fields so I don't think it's a fertility issue as one of the fields is along a river and has about 10 different soil types across it from gravel to peat to clay and plants are consistent throughout.
Only other thing was that it got naceto at 0.3l/ha 24 hours after sowing but only 12hours before about 30mm of rain.
It wasn't rolled after sowing.
Crop will be ok I think but just want to figure about why it's the way it is.
Does seed be tested for vigour
 

CORK

Well-Known Member
Is anyone noticing an issue with vigour in wheat this year, costello sown 4 weeks into good conditions after osr and it seems like it's standing still.
Germination was good , the plants are there despite slugs and crows but there's no power in the plants at all. I kind of have half an idea that it's 2019 seed I got, i noticed on 2 half tonne bags the remains of stitching where it looked like label had been ripped off and new one stitched on, maybe some other explanation but .......
Crop is completely even across fields so I don't think it's a fertility issue as one of the fields is along a river and has about 10 different soil types across it from gravel to peat to clay and plants are consistent throughout.
Only other thing was that it got naceto at 0.3l/ha 24 hours after sowing but only 12hours before about 30mm of rain.
It wasn't rolled after sowing.
Crop will be ok I think but just want to figure about why it's the way it is.
Does seed be tested for vigour

Over the years I’ve found that if seed is low in vigour it will also have a poor germination rate as the two go hand in hand.

I have a lot of wheat varieties from different countries sown here across trial plots (probably 500 varieties in all!). I also have barley plots sown and the barley seemed to have more get up and go in it.

If you still have the label for the seed you should be able to get a germination certificate for it.

Edit:
Just reading the label for Naceto, it says that reduced vigour can occur if heavy rain follows application. This is written on a lot of herbicide labels so may or may not be the cause. 30mm is a lot of rain though.
 
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Bcl

Well-Known Member
Over the years I’ve found that if seed is low in vigour it will also have a poor germination rate as the two go hand in hand.

I have a lot of wheat varieties from different countries sown here across trial plots (probably 500 varieties in all!). I also have barley plots sown and the barley seemed to have more get up and go in it.

If you still have the label for the seed you should be able to get a germination certificate for it.

Edit:
Just reading the label for Naceto, it says that reduced vigour can occur if heavy rain follows application. This is written on a lot of herbicide labels so may or may not be the cause. 30mm is a lot of rain though.
Yeah I'd agree the barley has some go in it this year. Some sown next door to me 2 weeks ago into borderline conditions and I remarked at the time that will get hard to get going but it's flying, so much so that it's making my neighbouring wheat that was in two weeks earlier look bad.
It kind off looks like an effect from the Naceto alright, I did question spraying (rang agronomist half eight Sunday morning! ) at the time cos I knew we were getting rain but got more than expected , so I'll have to be more careful in future.
I did run out with about half a tramline left to do and it only got the washings of the tank so I must look and see if there's a difference in this bit as the rate of Naceto would be negligible.
 

CORK

Well-Known Member
Yeah I'd agree the barley has some go in it this year. Some sown next door to me 2 weeks ago into borderline conditions and I remarked at the time that will get hard to get going but it's flying, so much so that it's making my neighbouring wheat that was in two weeks earlier look bad.
It kind off looks like an effect from the Naceto alright, I did question spraying (rang agronomist half eight Sunday morning! ) at the time cos I knew we were getting rain but got more than expected , so I'll have to be more careful in future.
I did run out with about half a tramline left to do and it only got the washings of the tank so I must look and see if there's a difference in this bit as the rate of Naceto would be negligible.
Any areas doubled by the sprayer might show something too.
 
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no name

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When those herbicide labels refer to heavy rain following application does that mean a risk if heavy rain falls within a few days after or does the risk remain longer. In other words after a few days does the herb bind to the upper layer of the soil and in the weeks that follow it won't wash down to the roots of the corn, or to work on the weeds has that to happen anyway.
 
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CORK

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When those herbicide labels refer to heavy rain following application does that mean a risk if heavy rain falls within a few days after or does the risk remain longer. In other words after a few days does the herb bind to the upper layer of the soil and in the weeks that follow it won't wash down to the roots of the corn, or to work on the weeds has that to happen anyway.
You’re spot on as far as I know,

These autumn herbicides are designed to be residual so that they remain available to control weeds over the winter period without being washed away, it will take a certain amount of time for them to bind to the soil.

I think it’s the clay particles that they bind to. This could explain why Sandy soils are at greater risk of herbicide damage following heavy rain as there is less clay for the herbicide to bind to.

Generally, the crop is under the greatest risk if it has germinated but not yet emerged (same with oilseed rape).
The small germinating seeds then end up in a soup of water and herbicide under the soil which is toxic to them.
 

FIAT 450

Well-Known Member
Is anyone noticing an issue with vigour in wheat this year, costello sown 4 weeks into good conditions after osr and it seems like it's standing still.
Germination was good , the plants are there despite slugs and crows but there's no power in the plants at all. I kind of have half an idea that it's 2019 seed I got, i noticed on 2 half tonne bags the remains of stitching where it looked like label had been ripped off and new one stitched on, maybe some other explanation but .......
Crop is completely even across fields so I don't think it's a fertility issue as one of the fields is along a river and has about 10 different soil types across it from gravel to peat to clay and plants are consistent throughout.
Only other thing was that it got naceto at 0.3l/ha 24 hours after sowing but only 12hours before about 30mm of rain.
It wasn't rolled after sowing.
Crop will be ok I think but just want to figure about why it's the way it is.
Does seed be tested for vigour
We had a similar issue back two years ago. Same field same treatment and you could follow the sower down the field were a new bag was put in. One half was flying along the side not. It reminded thats way too. Even the guy on the combine passed a remark on the difference and he knew nothing about it.
 
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Mid cork

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I have Costello sown the middle of October and Graham sown about ten days later both are only struggling along. Germination seems to be ok just no vigour. As said all read barley seems to be doing a lot better.
 
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Bcl

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You’re spot on as far as I know,

These autumn herbicides are designed to be residual so that they remain available to control weeds over the winter period without being washed away, it will take a certain amount of time for them to bind to the soil.

I think it’s the clay particles that they bind to. This could explain why Sandy soils are at greater risk of herbicide damage following heavy rain as there is less clay for the herbicide to bind to.

Generally, the crop is under the greatest risk if it has germinated but not yet emerged (same with oilseed rape).
The small germinating seeds then end up in a soup of water and herbicide under the soil which is toxic to them.
If you were in same scenario as I was, knowing of impending rain but excellent spraying conditions and a known grass weed issue and an agronomist very keen to get a pre emerge on, would you spray full rate, spray a half or lessor rate with a view to coming back in a few weeks or not spray at all?
 

CORK

Well-Known Member
If you were in same scenario as I was, knowing of impending rain but excellent spraying conditions and a known grass weed issue and an agronomist very keen to get a pre emerge on, would you spray full rate, spray a half or lessor rate with a view to coming back in a few weeks or not spray at all?
If I knew there was over 20mm of rain coming within 3 days I wouldn’t spray. I’d take my chances that I’d get back later with some form of post emergent herbicide.

Note: I’ve made plenty of spray mistakes over the years!
 
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Blackwater boy

Moderator
Pre ems are
If you were in same scenario as I was, knowing of impending rain but excellent spraying conditions and a known grass weed issue and an agronomist very keen to get a pre emerge on, would you spray full rate, spray a half or lessor rate with a view to coming back in a few weeks or not spray at all?
what grass weed issue
 

gone

Well-Known Member
Is anyone noticing an issue with vigour in wheat this year, costello sown 4 weeks into good conditions after osr and it seems like it's standing still.
Germination was good , the plants are there despite slugs and crows but there's no power in the plants at all. I kind of have half an idea that it's 2019 seed I got, i noticed on 2 half tonne bags the remains of stitching where it looked like label had been ripped off and new one stitched on, maybe some other explanation but .......
Crop is completely even across fields so I don't think it's a fertility issue as one of the fields is along a river and has about 10 different soil types across it from gravel to peat to clay and plants are consistent throughout.
Only other thing was that it got naceto at 0.3l/ha 24 hours after sowing but only 12hours before about 30mm of rain.
It wasn't rolled after sowing.
Crop will be ok I think but just want to figure about why it's the way it is.
Does seed be tested for vigour
I am not having a go or anything and 0.3L of Naceto is not the worst by any means, but I am fascinated by the move to more and more aggressive Pre-em graminicide sprays on ploughed ground and these are more general questions than in anyway aimed at you. I have a couple of customers who were screaming at me all autumn that their crops needed to be pre-emed come hell or high water, I asked why it had to be pre-em they couldn't say what they were chasing and why they needed pre-em, other than everyone else is doing it.
Pre emerge seems to me to be latest craze amoung agronomists, with stronger and more toxic, (to the crop) Graminicide herbicides.
Are growers getting that much trouble with grass weeds?
Or are agronomists selling people a belt and braces to cover their the own asses, because farmers demand clean crops and never worry about economics?
 

Bcl

Well-Known Member
I am not having a go or anything and 0.3L of Naceto is not the worst by any means, but I am fascinated by the move to more and more aggressive Pre-em graminicide sprays on ploughed ground and these are more general questions than in anyway aimed at you. I have a couple of customers who were screaming at me all autumn that their crops needed to be pre-emed come hell or high water, I asked why it had to be pre-em they couldn't say what they were chasing and why they needed pre-em, other than everyone else is doing it.
Pre emerge seems to me to be latest craze amoung agronomists, with stronger and more toxic, (to the crop) Graminicide herbicides.
Are growers getting that much trouble with grass weeds?
Or are agronomists selling people a belt and braces to cover their the own asses, because farmers demand clean crops and never worry about economics?
We never used a pre emerge before this year. It was used on one field for a known ryegrass issue but also to mitigate against potential resistance issues down the line I was led to believe.
Are pre emerge not more effective than post emerge??
 

CORK

Well-Known Member
I would have thought that Axial would kill those grasses?

I guess Pre-Em is a job done from the farmers and agronomists point of view. I haven’t felt the need to do it personally and despite having Autosteer and gps switching I’d hate to make extra tracks besides the tramlines (I know we could just make our own tramlines).
I’d expect the likes of pre em Flufenacet would need a top up in the spring as it might run out of steam.
 

TM155

Well-Known Member
I am not having a go or anything and 0.3L of Naceto is not the worst by any means, but I am fascinated by the move to more and more aggressive Pre-em graminicide sprays on ploughed ground and these are more general questions than in anyway aimed at you. I have a couple of customers who were screaming at me all autumn that their crops needed to be pre-emed come hell or high water, I asked why it had to be pre-em they couldn't say what they were chasing and why they needed pre-em, other than everyone else is doing it.
Pre emerge seems to me to be latest craze amoung agronomists, with stronger and more toxic, (to the crop) Graminicide herbicides.
Are growers getting that much trouble with grass weeds?
Or are agronomists selling people a belt and braces to cover their the own asses, because farmers demand clean crops and never worry about economics?
The main reason for going all pre em here this year is the ground travels a lot better. Made a lot of ruts in the past when doing some post em spraying.
 

gone

Well-Known Member
We never used a pre emerge before this year. It was used on one field for a known ryegrass issue but also to mitigate against potential resistance issues down the line I was led to believe.
Are pre emerge not more effective than post emerge??
Ryegrass, westerwold to be specific. Not going to be sown on this farm again
That makes sense, I'm not sure if Flufenacet is the best active for ryegrass, but a pre-em followed by a spring graminicide application is the best way to attack a very difficult grass weed.
 

Bcl

Well-Known Member
That makes sense, I'm not sure if Flufenacet is the best active for ryegrass, but a pre-em followed by a spring graminicide application is the best way to attack a very difficult grass weed.
That field with the problem got 0.45l ,and yeah the plan was a spring graminicide also.
There was a lot to be said for ipu!
 

gone

Well-Known Member
The main reason for going all pre em here this year is the ground travels a lot better. Made a lot of ruts in the past when doing some post em spraying.
Are you aiming not to spray any insecticide?
I am not against pre-em use in any way, just think it is an option for certain problems, but I don't think every field needs to be nuked with the strongest graminicide. Pre-em's are more effective on certain weeds, but also harder on the crop.
If you have the time and know what the advantages and pitfalls are, Pre-em will do a great job.
 
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Bcl

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I would have thought that Axial would kill those grasses?

I guess Pre-Em is a job done from the farmers and agronomists point of view. I haven’t felt the need to do it personally and despite having Autosteer and gps switching I’d hate to make extra tracks besides the tramlines (I know we could just make our own tramlines).
I’d expect the likes of pre em Flufenacet would need a top up in the spring as it might run out of steam.
The axial done a middling job on them 2 years ago in another field plus it's a bit expensive and no wild oat issues in this particular field
 

Bog Man

Well-Known Member
Aphids attack weak yellow plants . Spray damaged plants are more susceptible to aphid and disease attack. If you do a Brix test you can tell which plant is sprayed . Once the chemical companies get you on the roundabout early and damage your plants you will need them for the rest of the year.
Think of drug dealers in the school yard targeting young people. Once you start you have to stay going back to them.
 
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