zero grazing

soconnor7700 said:
Let the cows out to the grass,easier for the cow and easier for yourself
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I posted a picture on here of my cows grazing on circa 11 Feb this year, and they were all going to die from eating grass. Search "Cows out" I think.

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TMKF said:
Not a concrete rule and not true of 100% of high yielding herds (always exceptions) but it is my observation, most of those at the extreme end of production don't care enough about fertility to adapt their breeding. They are quite happy to keep on animals with chronic infertility.
Big jump between 3 and 5 straws though
Can I ask though if you have a cow that'll only go incalf after 3 tries or more why would you breed from her? I'd sooner use the sexed on something that will hold after 2, cos at least she has decent fertility
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Quite often these herds are the ones that are expanding so will be breeding of them to get numbers. If they're still good milking cows then why not breed if them? We had one old cow would only calve every other year did around 24,000 per lactation. Still good milk producer once you get your numbers right you can focus more on the ones that are problems
 
slurryboy said:
Quite often these herds are the ones that are expanding so will be breeding of them to get numbers. If they're still good milking cows then why not breed if them? We had one old cow would only calve every other year did around 24,000 per lactation. Still good milk producer once you get your numbers right you can focus more on the ones that are problems
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Ask FLT what does he think is the main key to a high yielding herd.

Posted from the Ham Bone using Crapatalk 2
 
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slurryboy said:
Quite often these herds are the ones that are expanding so will be breeding of them to get numbers. If they're still good milking cows then why not breed if them? We had one old cow would only calve every other year did around 24,000 per lactation. Still good milk producer once you get your numbers right you can focus more on the ones that are problems
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Many of the herds I'm talking about are definitely not expanding.
And here we find the strong divide between us in low cost and you guys on high input.
IMO a cow not able to go incalf every year is never a good cow, regardless of her yield. I can feed some of my fertile cows to high yield (and my dad did in the past) if I choose to. Finding bulls transmitting high yield is not difficult, finding one who transmits high fertility and yield takes far more effort and years of genetic improvement (which 1 generation can and does destroy)

Ok take your old cow. Calving every 730 days, or in milk for 670 days. That means her 305 day yield is 10,980. Yet you can see if you go back a page cows doing that yield or more and calving every 365.
Now there is a simply unavoidable fact that to produce more later in the lactation requires more and more energy (not opinion that, scientific fact). So to produce the same 11,000 litres you will find that old girl has been fed far more than FLT's, costing you more for no advantage
 
no matter if you have a low yielding herd or a high yielding herd but are starting into having poor conception rates and bad fertility, when you run into poor longevity you'll be snookered. ignoring fertility is a very dangerous road to head down.
 
and to clarify imo if a cow doesn't have atleast 4 claves she is useless no matter how much milk she gives. this is our aim on our farm above all else, cows must go in calf and last.
 
Heifers then are the huge bloody hidden cost I think when it comes to infertility, at least a cow with a 500day CI will give milk for that, a heifer that calves down at 30/36months eats all before her for them extra months, and becomes a big fat cow. I've too many in the current bunch who are calving down at 30months+, if teagasc have worked out it costs 1400 to rear a heifer that calves down at 2yrs old, I don't bloody want to know what it costs me to get these 30month ladies into the parlour, probably close on 2k. I've the milkingplatform to expand by at least 50% post 2015, however I know I'll be pissing against the wind if I think I'll do it by expansion using heifers that have cost me that.
 
bruceythom said:
Ask FLT what does he think is the main key to a high yielding herd.

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We have improved fertility since then. Also that cow was a one off her calves haven't been bad to get in calf either. AI man always complained she was a long reach to serve.
 
Tim818 said:
Heifers then are the huge bloody hidden cost I think when it comes to infertility, at least a cow with a 500day CI will give milk for that, a heifer that calves down at 30/36months eats all before her for them extra months, and becomes a big fat cow. I've too many in the current bunch who are calving down at 30months+, if teagasc have worked out it costs 1400 to rear a heifer that calves down at 2yrs old, I don't bloody want to know what it costs me to get these 30month ladies into the parlour, probably close on 2k. I've the milkingplatform to expand by at least 50% post 2015, however I know I'll be pissing against the wind if I think I'll do it by expansion using heifers that have cost me that.
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I plan to use the "carry overs" this year (3 in total-too fecking many :no:) for a little experiment with embryo transfer...
 
TMKF said:
Beef stopper?
Would you recommend using a younger heifer or just trying to get some beef heifers?
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beef stopper is cheap embyro made up by et guys theyre used to get troublesome cows incalf

If its your first time id use younger heifers personally
buying in beef heifers could bring in diease if your a closed herd
there are so many variables with et work you want to do anything you can control as best as you can
 
We had an "external advisor" recommend selling our young stock and buy milkers.

As much as we need to increase production, I think there's nothing better than having a closed herd and knowing your stock.

I know this guy was looking more at figures and I'm sure it makes sense to push more of our Stock -"investment" into milk production. But is this not a quick fix?
 
BANKVILLE said:
beef stopper is cheap embyro made up by et guys theyre used to get troublesome cows incalf

If its your first time id use younger heifers personally
buying in beef heifers could bring in diease if your a closed herd
there are so many variables with et work you want to do anything you can control as best as you can
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Ahhh...seems a very expensive way to get a cow incalf?:001_huh:
Grand thanks for the advice. Yea I'd be thinking more down the line keeping some AA heifers.
I have a couple of nice strong of this year's dairy heifers I might try so. Was only trying to recoup some of my losses from those carryover yokes
Treemover said:
We had an "external advisor" recommend selling our young stock and buy milkers.

As much as we need to increase production, I think there's nothing better than having a closed herd and knowing your stock.

I know this guy was looking more at figures and I'm sure it makes sense to push more of our Stock -"investment" into milk production. But is this not a quick fix?
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Jesus that is some shocking bad advice. As you say from a disease POV alone it would be far better just to keep your own.
I always say when discussing this though, no one ever sells their best heifers. If someone else's castoffs is better than the best of your own something must be badly wrong
 
Last resort for a special cow never used one myself but ets vet says egg only cost 200 ish

TMKF said:
Ahhh...seems a very expensive way to get a cow incalf?:001_huh:
Grand thanks for the advice. Yea I'd be thinking more down the line keeping some AA heifers.
I have a couple of nice strong of this year's dairy heifers I might try so. Was only trying to recoup some of my losses from those carryover yokes

Jesus that is some shocking bad advice. As you say from a disease POV alone it would be far better just to keep your own.
I always say when discussing this though, no one ever sells their best heifers. If someone else's castoffs is better than the best of your own something must be badly wrong
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TMKF said:
Jesus that is some shocking bad advice. As you say from a disease POV alone it would be far better just to keep your own.
I always say when discussing this though, no one ever sells their best heifers. If someone else's castoffs is better than the best of your own something must be badly wrong
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Quite common to sell the best heifers gives a better name so buyers keep coming back. If you're limited in terms of numbers you can carry letting best ones go they will be worth more and ones that are a bit plain but still have the breeding can milk just as well. Obviously there are occasional poor ones that you don't want to keep on.
 
slurryboy said:
Quite common to sell the best heifers gives a better name so buyers keep coming back. If you're limited in terms of numbers you can carry letting best ones go they will be worth more and ones that are a bit plain but still have the breeding can milk just as well. Obviously there are occasional poor ones that you don't want to keep on.
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I dont understand that at all.
If you sell your best heifers then you wont have any top stock to breed off. So you're selling out you're highest merit animals.
Even if someone comes back to you looking for more, the stock you could sell them would be of lower standard that the ones from the previous batch cos they're mothers were the ones you didnt think good enough to sell
 
bruceythom said:
I posted a picture on here of my cows grazing on circa 11 Feb this year, and they were all going to die from eating grass. Search "Cows out" I think.

Posted from the Ham Bone using Crapatalk 2
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How were they going to die,cows should be let out whenever possible,when they are inside,you have to lime cubicles and put in grass. Why draw grass into them when you can leave them out to it,less labour involved,the man that has his cows out has nothing to do
 
soconnor7700 said:
How were they going to die,cows should be let out whenever possible,when they are inside,you have to lime cubicles and put in grass. Why draw grass into them when you can leave them out to it,less labour involved,the man that has his cows out has nothing to do
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but you can't always let them out, and the machinery can travel better and make less damage than a herd of cows, plus you get an even cut encouraging better regrowth and taking more grass off the ground.
zero grazing has it's moments, but can be more hassle than it's worth at the same time.
 
TMKF said:
Ahhh...seems a very expensive way to get a cow incalf?:001_huh:
Grand thanks for the advice. Yea I'd be thinking more down the line keeping some AA heifers.
I have a couple of nice strong of this year's dairy heifers I might try so. Was only trying to recoup some of my losses from those carryover yokes
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It depends why they're carryovers if its because they were late calves its maybe OK, if its because because they didn't do well or hold when they should it would be wiser to pass.
Cow stopper embryos should be well below 200, they are sometimes "old" Holstein or jersey genetics. I have used them on occasion, the most successful of which was a cow with blocked fallopian tubes which has carried embryos the last 3 years.




BANKVILLE said:
Last resort for a special cow never used one myself but ets vet says egg only cost 200 ish
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311 said:
It depends why they're carryovers if its because they were late calves its maybe OK, if its because because they didn't do well or hold when they should it would be wiser to pass.
Cow stopper embryos should be well below 200, they are sometimes "old" Holstein or jersey genetics. I have used them on occasion, the most successful of which was a cow with blocked fallopian tubes which has carried embryos the last 3 years.
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They'd be the last of the bunch (late april). But 2 didnt do well, 1 of them was just 20kgs behind breeding target (and probably could have been bulled but wasnt happy with her fat level).
I've never come across that at all. Learn something new everyday :thumbup2:
 
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