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Got a piece of ground where we want to turn the sheep, BUT it has a public path runs through it, and we cant fence it. It has a kissing gate stile at one end and a step stile at the other, the problem is I want to put some signs up before each of those to get them to just put their dogs on leads before they get to these, I allready have the NFU keep your dogs on leads near livestock signs up, which they ignore.
I need to put the signs well before each stile. Because they tend to get onto the land either side of this piece and then let the dogs off, so the dogs get to the middle bit well before the owners do.

How can I word it? Do you think putting a date in the wording may help, say in lamb ewes will be on this piece from XXX date, dogs must be on leads.
Or how else?:001_unsure:
 
Got a piece of ground where we want to turn the sheep, BUT it has a public path runs through it, and we cant fence it. It has a kissing gate stile at one end and a step stile at the other, the problem is I want to put some signs up before each of those to get them to just put their dogs on leads before they get to these, I allready have the NFU keep your dogs on leads near livestock signs up, which they ignore.
I need to put the signs well before each stile. Because they tend to get onto the land either side of this piece and then let the dogs off, so the dogs get to the middle bit well before the owners do.

How can I word it? Do you think putting a date in the wording may help, say in lamb ewes will be on this piece from XXX date, dogs must be on leads.
Or how else?:001_unsure:

you can only try but you know what folk are like
 
I think putting on words to indicate that there will be pregnant ewes in the field will do nothing but help. Putting some dates on too will add to that, because you can't blame people for ignoring a sign saying to avoid livestock when they've been along the path several times and found no livestock.
Of course, it is not a legal requirement to have a dog on a lead while on a public footpath, and my own policy is to leave the dog off her lead if I can't see any stock in a field, or if they're a long way from the path. If there are sheep within a few tens of yards from the path, then the lead goes on, despite the fact that the dog lives with sheep, and defends ours "vigorously" from any threat.
 
So something along the lines of:-

Please note.
From xxxx until further notice.
Land beyond the stile will be grazed by in lamb ewes.
They may not be directly in sight.
Please keep dogs on leads.
Dogs worrying livestock may be shot.

It is an awkward piece of ground, but nevertheless a good piece,and as RGSP says, they wont always find the ewes on the immidiate path, but the loose dogs will, and its how to sort of train the owners into expecting there to be livestock there. I might get the signs up for a couple of weeks, before hand and monitor it to start with. :001_unsure:
 
a date would be worth while means walkers will know its current and not just a bog standard sign that's been up for years and there to be ignored . the average townie will have know idea when sheep are landing or due to lamb . im next to a field with lambs in it just now didn't expect that round here farmer probably didn't either
 
a date would be worth while means walkers will know its current and not just a bog standard sign that's been up for years and there to be ignored . the average townie will have know idea when sheep are landing or due to lamb . im next to a field with lambs in it just now didn't expect that round here farmer probably didn't either

:thumbup1:

Thanks all:001_smile:
 
If I throw it hard enough:001_rolleyes:

Yes I can, easily, but dont think that is very good. Not the dogs fault.

Incidently, re the dogs will be shot bit, I narrowly escaped a formal on record caution last year, after threatening to have a loose dog shot. Owner called the police who turner up within the hour, 2 female POs whos opening line was "I will tell you now I hate animals of alll kinds so if there are any around keep them out of my way".
She then told me that, the owner of the dog had made a formal complaint of my telling her that her dog could be shot for chasing stock, it caused her alarm and distress, so much so that some half an hour after the incident, she rang the police in a very distressed state:001_rolleyes: I asked the PW who was the witness to my intimidating behaviour, had the dog gained human powers(this didnt help) but she did say I could be charged because "threat" of violence even against a dog was un lawful:001_unsure: The other not so vocal officers only question was do sheep bite.
So what do you do?
 
Shoot the owners?

Being serious for a second, I really don't think the "dogs will be shot" thing will work. All that will do is cause alarm and distress to the owners of the dogs and probably alienation.
A sign saying something about the sheep being pregnant and the sight of a dog may cause abortion might have better effect.
What I'm trying to say is folk will be more on your side and therefore cooperative if you ask for help rather than threaten them.
 
Shoot the owners?

Being serious for a second, I really don't think the "dogs will be shot" thing will work. All that will do is cause alarm and distress to the owners of the dogs and probably alienation.
A sign saying something about the sheep being pregnant and the sight of a dog may cause abortion might have better effect.
What I'm trying to say is folk will be more on your side and therefore cooperative if you ask for help rather than threaten them.

No you are quite correct, what dosnt help around here at the moment is the local council are also trying to bring in a bye law to stop people walking their dogs in any local parks off lead, and put a ban on walking more than a couple at a time, so obviously folk are trying to find else where to walk, most of the really troublesome dog walkers I have got rid of, they do get sick of being educated and go elsewhere now.
It would be much simpler if I could fence the piece off, unfortunately it is not possible, one side is fenced, and it is along this line the path runs. I cant fence it in sort of a roadway because it is rock save for maybe about 20ft. But the piece is about 6acres and it is just going to waste, it is good but rough grazing, and ideal for this time of year when the rest of the ground suffers compaction with it being wetter ground.
Owners are also more likely to pick up their dog mess, when Fido is on a lead, something that they never do unless I remind them whilst it is bounding up and down the hill out of their sight.
When i took the land over I really did have huge problems with one particular group of up to 6 owners each with a couple of dogs each, two of who carried horse whips, and used them on both horses and sheep:angry:
One horse whip now lives somewhere in the woods, the other is banana shaped and last seen as a necklace around its users neck.
 
I too think that directly threatening to shoot dogs will be counter productive. Of course you retain the right to do it, if you find a dog or dogs attacking your sheep, and so do I. But many if not most dog owners know that the law is quite strict on what constitutes worrying sufficient to warrant shooting, and I don't suppose you have anything against well-behaved dogs under their owners' control, whether on or off a lead. Unfortunately the really nasty dogs for sheep usually have owners to match, who may deliberately set them to run at your sheep just for the "fun" of it, and aggressive notices will only make this more likely.

We have a bridleway down the side of our land, which is quite heavily used for both riding and dog-walking. Given that most of the people that use it are reasonably local, I'm pretty sure they are actually an advantage overall, in that they deter child vandals, pikeys, urban types out to dump rubbish, or indeed foxes.
 
I too think that directly threatening to shoot dogs will be counter productive. Of course you retain the right to do it, if you find a dog or dogs attacking your sheep, and so do I. But many if not most dog owners know that the law is quite strict on what constitutes worrying sufficient to warrant shooting, and I don't suppose you have anything against well-behaved dogs under their owners' control, whether on or off a lead. Unfortunately the really nasty dogs for sheep usually have owners to match, who may deliberately set them to run at your sheep just for the "fun" of it, and aggressive notices will only make this more likely.

We have a bridleway down the side of our land, which is quite heavily used for both riding and dog-walking. Given that most of the people that use it are reasonably local, I'm pretty sure they are actually an advantage overall, in that they deter child vandals, pikeys, urban types out to dump rubbish, or indeed foxes.

No absolutely nothing, and they are encouraged.

I have decided on:-

Please note.
From Sat 19th Feb
there will be sheep grazing beyond the next stile.
They may not be visible on your approach to the path
But they will be there.
Please keep to the way marked path
Keep all dogs under close control.
Preferably on a lead.
Owners of sheep causing distress to livestock are liable to prosecution.
Dogs caught worrying sheep may be shot.

Remote livestock monitoring cameras in use.

Too much? not enough?:001_unsure:

I will put these up, for a week before actually turning the sheep on, monitor it and see.

The path is well marked, but I intend to add 2 more finger posts, making it even more obvious.
I can only try.
To be honest RGSP out of all the walkers who use it with dogs, there is just one man, who is totally responsible, he is an out and out towny, but has a collie, that is superbly trained, and a real credit to him. He is interested in the sheep, on the occasion the ponies have been on there he even gives a low whistle as he approaches them, if they are stood with their backs to him.
I would have a hundred of him each and every day coming through. He walks it daily come rain or shine, mud or dust.
 
Maybe shorten it a little:

Please note;
From Sat 19th Feb 2011 sheep will be grazing beyond the next stile and may not be visible on your approach to the path.
Please keep to the way-marked path and keep all dogs under very close control on a lead.
Owners of dogs causing distress to livestock are liable to prosecution.
Dogs caught worrying sheep may be shot.

I would maybe remove the last sentence in light of your previous experience!
 
Best approach if it is justified.
Out of curiosity, what are they shot with?
A shotgun doesn't have much range, and dogs chasing sheep are not usually within that range.
Then if it is a firearm, I could hit a dog at 100yds, but not definitely kill it at that range. If I asked for sheep worrying dogs to be included on my certificate I know they wouldn't allow it for a rimfire. By that I mean the calibre is too small, I can't imagine anyone has dogs specifically mentioned.
That leaves centrefires, do many sheep farmers have these? Probably, for fox control.

Do dogs get shot these days?
Used to hear of it years ago, but the world seems to have changed since then. It seems farmers and their stock are much less valued nowadays and Fido has become quite precious.
I guess back then folk walked their dogs and accepted it was farmers land and they had to be on best behaviour, which has changed to it being everybodys countryside that farmers get paid to look after for them, plus providing a few sheep to keep the dogs entertained.
 
I would put the sign up as you suggested that dogs could be shot. I would follow that up with regular patrols whilst carrying your shotgun, no need for it to be loaded, just time the patrols for the most popular time for dog walkers. I did this and its surprising how many people used to put the lead on the dog well before they got to us.
 
Believe me shooting of a dog would be last resort, and although you can never fortell the circumstance, I would try my damndest to catch a loose un accompanied dog, and we dont get many "strays" around, last we had chased 4 in lamb ewes out of the flock over the edge of the quarry, it was a beagle pup, so was just running with no intent, I managed to corner it, it was that hyped no way would it come to me, I tried every trick in the book, by that time, a couple of neighbours had seen what was happening, and one went for its owner, they were out, but teenage son was in, he came out grapped it by its collar almost strangled the poor thing and then laid into it with his boots, I was bloody heartbroken. I can still hear it yelping now. I managed to persuade its owner to re home it.
The ewes survived but lambed early.
thankfully that is a rarity. I have had the side torn off one, that could be stitched up. These were in enclosed fields.
I may regret using this piece of ground, but I will monitor it first, just see if folk do keep dogs under control, the ones I intend to turn out will come to a bucket, so I could turn them out and sit for a couple of hours with them, and watch what folk do, bringing them back in if necessary.
 
a relation of ours had 2 dogs kill 30 of his sheep, he shot both of them with the 12 bore this was only last year. it was in the paper, il see if i can dig it out
 
I shot a dog which killed 2 ewes and injured 4 some time ago.Dog owner called the police who told him I was within my rights to shoot it and that he should pay for dead ewes and vet bills.Dog owner sued me for value of dog.It was thrown out of court and I was eventually paid.
It was reported in the local press,I was a bit cross because the story was not correct but dogs which walk our footpaths now are all on leads.
 
If I throw it hard enough:001_rolleyes:

Yes I can, easily, but dont think that is very good. Not the dogs fault.

Incidently, re the dogs will be shot bit, I narrowly escaped a formal on record caution last year, after threatening to have a loose dog shot. Owner called the police who turner up within the hour, 2 female POs whos opening line was "I will tell you now I hate animals of alll kinds so if there are any around keep them out of my way".
She then told me that, the owner of the dog had made a formal complaint of my telling her that her dog could be shot for chasing stock, it caused her alarm and distress, so much so that some half an hour after the incident, she rang the police in a very distressed state:001_rolleyes: I asked the PW who was the witness to my intimidating behaviour, had the dog gained human powers(this didnt help) but she did say I could be charged because "threat" of violence even against a dog was un lawful:001_unsure: The other not so vocal officers only question was do sheep bite.
So what do you do?

actually shoot the dog next time, no more dogs on that path!
 
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