The future of the tillage sector

Blackwater boy

Blackwater boy

Moderator
I’m just starting a thread for topics related to policy and issues that are affecting the sector and the future of tillage farming here. Siobhan Walsh the tillage editor of the journal is doing some great work and putting herself out there since. She is looking for feedback, you can click on the link on her tweet. And Tams for combines is not a realistic proposal.
 
Blackwater boy said:
I’m just starting a thread for topics related to policy and issues that are affecting the sector and the future of tillage farming here. Currently it is the decline in acres due to changes in nitrates rules on the livestock sector. Siobhan Walsh the tillage editor of the journal is doing some great work and putting herself out there since. She is looking for feedback, you can click on the link on her tweet. And Tams for combines is not a realistic proposal.
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Has this not been done to death already on here? There is little or no political appetite for the cereals sector, more margin for most in imported grains. The TIS will be a nice support for dairy farms expanding for the sake of nitrates
 
I think that Bord Bia need to grow up and value the lower carbon footprint that Irish produced grains have.
I don’t care about the vested interests that don’t want this to happen.

Thank you BB for reminding me to contact Siobhan.
 
Blackwater boy said:
Anything constructive to add?
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So you don't consider it of any relevance that there is greater margin for the industey in imported grains, zero political will to facilitate the cereal farmer and dairy farmers able to make the most benefit of the TIS.

Is it an echo chamber of views your looking for?

Better straigher ploughing, better powerharrows and seeders might be the answer of course aswell
 
Crops said:
I think that Bord Bia need to grow up and value the lower carbon footprint that Irish produced grains have.
I don’t care about the vested interests that don’t want this to happen.

Thank you BB for reminding me to contact Siobhan.
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Would be a great string to add to the Origin Green bow. Unless of course it's just greenwashing
 
Ozzy Scott said:
That point is irrelevant, as your after sayin yourself, so bit odd you added it in your first post
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I’ve removed it now Pet. What’s your problem anyway, is it possible to just say nothing unless you have somthing to add rather than just picking holes in everything everyone says.
 
Blackwater boy said:
I’ve removed it now Pet. What’s your problem anyway, is it possible to just say nothing unless you have somthing to add rather than just picking holes in everything everyone says.
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Your opinion is fairly easily swayed, to change it that fast about dairy farmers swallowing up cereal acres. Its the main issue at this very minute, to not recognise this issue is a bit wild.
 
I think Irish farmers are predominantly livestock producers descended from cattle raiders and grass poachers. Wars have been fought over trespass , rustling of bulls and grazing rights on boggy uplands. Aside from the potato famine breaking sod has never had political or social value. I know Tillage farmers that keep a few cattle just so that they can talk to other farmers.
The more tillage lands go over to dairy makes my straw more valuable. The chaotic rule changes last autumn about tilling post harvest and the environmental damage of having no stubble for birds that need it reminds me of the soviet diktats that led to famine and would not inspire you with confidence about what they would do next .
I think a quota should be put on Tillage land and if land was in tillage in the last five years it should remain in tillage.
Tillage land should be ring fenced and not allowed to revert to Grassland. The government should have to pay the balance of the rent increase similar to the HAP payment.
 
Crops said:
Ok lads, draw a line under it. If people have nothing useful to say then please say nothing at all.
This topic is important.
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Is discussing the loss of cereal ground to livestock farms due to a change in legislation, out of bounds and irrelevant in this current thread so?

Suppose it's not an issue to those that are lucky enough to farm their own land, who don't have to compete in the land rental market.

It was the only point raised in the initial thread, before editing. But now not worth discussing?

The demise of every sector of Irish farming has been talked about since time began.
 
Bog Man said:
I think Irish farmers are predominantly livestock producers descended from cattle raiders and grass poachers. Wars have been fought over trespass , rustling of bulls and grazing rights on boggy uplands. Aside from the potato famine breaking sod has never had political or social value. I know Tillage farmers that keep a few cattle just so that they can talk to other farmers.
The more tillage lands go over to dairy makes my straw more valuable. The chaotic rule changes last autumn about tilling post harvest and the environmental damage of having no stubble for birds that need it reminds me of the soviet diktats that led to famine and would not inspire you with confidence about what they would do next .
I think a quota should be put on Tillage land and if land was in tillage in the last five years it should remain in tillage.
Tillage land should be ring fenced and not allowed to revert to Grassland. The government should have to pay the balance of the rent increase similar to the HAP payment.
Click to expand...
Hilarious that only a few years ago it was hard to take land out of grass and put into tillage.

I think Ozzy has covered the main problem. As with most government policy the laws of unintended consequence is never thought about. Conacre will be swallowed up into long term leases by the dairy men. Land that was extensively grazed by sheep and cattle/suckler farmers will now actually become more intensively farmed. I have tillage here on a small scale along with sucklers. But all around any land that comes up for rent is being taken by dairy farmers.
 
Bog Man said:
I think Irish farmers are predominantly livestock producers descended from cattle raiders and grass poachers. Wars have been fought over trespass , rustling of bulls and grazing rights on boggy uplands. Aside from the potato famine breaking sod has never had political or social value. I know Tillage farmers that keep a few cattle just so that they can talk to other farmers.
The more tillage lands go over to dairy makes my straw more valuable. The chaotic rule changes last autumn about tilling post harvest and the environmental damage of having no stubble for birds that need it reminds me of the soviet diktats that led to famine and would not inspire you with confidence about what they would do next .
I think a quota should be put on Tillage land and if land was in tillage in the last five years it should remain in tillage.
Tillage land should be ring fenced and not allowed to revert to Grassland. The government should have to pay the balance of the rent increase similar to the HAP payment.
Click to expand...
I would say that in a proper sustainable tillage farming system that grass would be an important slot in your rotation, saying that tillage land cant revert to grassland is a bit extreme/ nonsensical
 
Bog Man said:
I think Irish farmers are predominantly livestock producers descended from cattle raiders and grass poachers. Wars have been fought over trespass , rustling of bulls and grazing rights on boggy uplands. Aside from the potato famine breaking sod has never had political or social value. I know Tillage farmers that keep a few cattle just so that they can talk to other farmers.
The more tillage lands go over to dairy makes my straw more valuable. The chaotic rule changes last autumn about tilling post harvest and the environmental damage of having no stubble for birds that need it reminds me of the soviet diktats that led to famine and would not inspire you with confidence about what they would do next .
I think a quota should be put on Tillage land and if land was in tillage in the last five years it should remain in tillage.
Tillage land should be ring fenced and not allowed to revert to Grassland. The government should have to pay the balance of the rent increase similar to the HAP payment.
Click to expand...
More restrictions on land with quota is not the answer. Enough red tape as it is.
 
Ozzy Scott said:
Is discussing the loss of cereal ground to livestock farms due to a change in legislation, out of bounds and irrelevant in this current thread so?

Suppose it's not an issue to those that are lucky enough to farm their own land, who don't have to compete in the land rental market.

It was the only point raised in the initial thread, before editing. But now not worth discussing?

The demise of every sector of Irish farming has been talked about since time began.
Click to expand...
Ozzy Scott said:
Has this not been done to death already on here? There is little or no political appetite for the cereals sector, more margin for most in imported grains. The TIS will be a nice support for dairy farms expanding for the sake of nitrates
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I think it was the way your post more or less dismissed the idea of discussing the topic, you then followed up with what struck me as a sarcastic dig at the TIS.

Not very constructive in my view.

Anyway, we’re all big boys and girls so let’s park it.
 
Crops said:
I think it was the way your post more or less dismissed the idea of discussing the topic, you then followed up with what struck me as a sarcastic dig at the TIS.

Not very constructive in my view.

Anyway, we’re all big boys and girls so let’s park it.
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I don't see how it's a sarcastic remark, when it's happening on the ground, it might not be affecting you, but around here, there won't be a cereal crop grown by a cereal farmer soon. But sure its not relevant so we might as well get back to talking about the price of straw and drills
 
Obviously this has been discussed to death before but having an IGAS inspection next week brings it firmly into focus for me. I am in favour of the scheme and having quality assurance but how can we stand for the duplicity of the system where imports of feedstuff are coming from outside the EU with zero traceability or knowledge about chemical inputs. How this is allowed to happen is sickening and Bord Bia, IGAS and the Department and any other hand of the state that has a role should be pushed hard on this by farm organisations, but i guess it would mean more expensive feed for livestock farmers so...
 
I dont think the government should be called upon to support or subsidise tillage farmers who are loosing leased ground to dairy farmers. It should be a free market and if the dairy farmer makes more income per acre and therefore is able to pay more per acre then so be it.
 
mcdp said:
I dont think the government should be called upon to support or subsidise tillage farmers who are loosing leased ground to dairy farmers. It should be a free market and if the dairy farmer makes more income per acre and therefore is able to pay more per acre then so be it.
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I’d agree. I think the problem that most people have with the recent jump in land rental prices is the fact that it’s driven by new water pollution policy which is resulting in dairy farmers going out competing for land they don’t need or really want and simultaneously damaging other farming sectors.

To rub salt in the wound, my view is that it won’t improve water quality.

We don’t rent or lease land but I still think it’s stupid and unfair.
 
mcdp said:
I dont think the government should be called upon to support or subsidise tillage farmers who are loosing leased ground to dairy farmers. It should be a free market and if the dairy farmer makes more income per acre and therefore is able to pay more per acre then so be it.
Click to expand...
The department and environmentalists pretending to be concerned about tillage in Ireland and then introducing measures that are detrimental to the sector. If they get rid of Roundup I will be getting in the robots.
Historically they got rid of sugar beet which was like kicking the leg out from a three legged stool. The changes to single farm payment has not helped .
 
Unfortunately nothing very positive to add. It has been clear for a good while that Dairying is the only game in town and if I was starting farming now I would be going Dairying.
I would hate to see quotas or land use being limited.
Resetting the slurry export figures and enforce the actual slurry movement.
Reduce the buffer zones.
 
People cant swin in the liffey because there is so much of their own shite in it and no dairy farmers for miles.

Dairy farmers taking land they dont need to solve a problem that exists only on paper is driving land rental prices crazy and making it too expensive for other sectors. Its too expensive for themselves too but they dont realise that.
 
marco said:
Hilarious that only a few years ago it was hard to take land out of grass and put into tillage.

I think Ozzy has covered the main problem. As with most government policy the laws of unintended consequence is never thought about. Conacre will be swallowed up into long term leases by the dairy men. Land that was extensively grazed by sheep and cattle/suckler farmers will now actually become more intensively farmed. I have tillage here on a small scale along with sucklers. But all around any land that comes up for rent is being taken by dairy farmers.
Click to expand...
A certain bloodstock breeding operation has taken some amount of grassland and put it into tillage in recent years, I can't see them ever moving to dairy.
 
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