Wet ground

muckymanor said:
That's mad money Nash!
I posted the pictures up here this time 2 years ago when I got the lad with the stoning cart on the Morooka track dumper to do the drainage for me. He used 4" pipe and filled the drains to the top with stone.
1870 meters for €7500 inc vat (€4.10 + Vat/M). He supplied everything - machines, stone and pipe. It was all on sloped ground, so he had no spoil to draw away, only levelled it out. It would have been €4.50/meter if he had to draw the spoil away.
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There's something not right there then so. 4in piping is around 1.10 a metre plus VAT. Stone is around 11 plus VAT and is 15t per 100m so 1.65 a metre plus VAT. So in that case your man is working for 1.25 a metre plus VAT :scratchhead::scratchhead:

More power to him if he's able to make it work.:undecided:
 
nashmach said:
There's something not right there then so. 4in piping is around 1.10 a metre plus VAT. Stone is around 11 plus VAT and is 15t per 100m so 1.65 a metre plus VAT. So in that case your man is working for 1.25 a metre plus VAT :scratchhead::scratchhead:

More power to him if he's able to make it work.:undecided:
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4 In pipe can be bought here for €80 per 100m roll from a retailer. 3in for €55. My contractor buys direct from the manufacturer in Northern Ireland by the lorry load and you can bet that he's getting it for €55 per roll or less. 4in washed drainage stone is €8.50 per ton to me for a single load from a local quarry. You can bet it's less for him when he buys a couple of load every day.

He can do 600 to 800 meters per day just himself and the stoning cart driver. He's doing all right out of it!
 
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muckymanor said:
4 In pipe can be bought here for €80 per 100m roll from a retailer. 3in for €55. My contractor buys direct from the manufacturer in Northern Ireland by the lorry load and you can bet that he's getting it for €55 per roll or less. 4in washed drainage stone is €8.50 per ton to me for a single load from a local quarry. You can bet it's less for him when he buys a couple of load every day.

He can do 600 to 800 meters per day just himself and the stoning cart driver. He's doing all right out of it!
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I double checked my figures today since i was being queried on them and as I thought it was 7.20/metre Inc Vat or 6.15/metre excl VAT.

i assume all your prices are plus VAT. There's not an asses roar of matching those prices around here, I've more than shopped around and I bet that is for the black plastic rather than the yellow piping from Cork Plastics. You may say ah sure piping is piping but there is a noticeable difference between the two.

As for 4in stone in a drain, if you did that around here you might as well put field stones in it, a waste of time.

There's no point in coming on here and building anyone's expectations that a job is going to be done cheaply. A good drainage job pays for itself, a bad one will break you. There's also a big difference between drains at 6ft and 3ft.

I priced a big job two years ago using three different methods and ultimately when all costs were analysed there was only 200 in the difference between dearest and cheapest.
 
I'm not going to argue with you. I can show you the receipt for what I got done. Dad got drainage done at the same price too. I don't think it's fair to suggest that because it was cheaper than you can get that it's a bad job. It has brought an unbelievable improvement to my land and I plan to do more in the coming year.

Yes those prices are without vat but vat is reclaimable to unregistered farmers on drainage.

The stone was inch. (that was a typo in my last post.)
The pipe was yellow pipe from cherry's in Dungannon. I don't know if it's up to the standard of Cork plastic but it's certainly better than the black pipe that I used in other jobs previously.

As for distance apart. If you have to go 3f then you are in awful bad ground. Mine went anywhere between 3 meters and 5 meters apart and I plan to mole plough them when I get a dry summer. But it has worked seriously well. But you pay per meter not by distance apart so it has no bearing on price.

I also got the contractor to put stone underneath the pipe. (most won't as it takes extra time) but the stoning cart on the morooka made it easy.
 
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Around us it is mainly a father and son outfit that would do that work. They charge by the hour . You buy the stone yourself. They recommend 2" stone which costs €200 + vat. You buy the pipe yourself. They say , " If you are going to skimp on stone , forget the pipe and fill to the top with stone with the money saved ". 10 yard spacing would be normal. I found the black pipe to be stronger, but it has only slits at 12, 3 , 6 and 9 o clock. Yellow has slits in between each.
I saw them use 42 loads of stone in an 8 acre field this autumn. Some of was into sounding bucket trenches which swallow stone. The owner would be be a belt and braces man.
I agree with Nash. The dearest drainage job is a badly done one , that has to be done again.
 
muckymanor said:
I'm not going to argue with you. I can show you the receipt for what I got done. Dad got drainage done at the same price too. I don't think it's fair to suggest that because it was cheaper than you can get that it's a bad job. It has brought an unbelievable improvement to my land and I plan to do more in the coming year.

Yes those prices are without vat but vat is reclaimable to unregistered farmers on drainage.

The stone was inch. (that was a typo in my last post.)
The pipe was yellow pipe from cherry's in Dungannon. I don't know if it's up to the standard of Cork plastic but it's certainly better than the black pipe that I used in other jobs previously.

As for distance apart. If you have to go 3f then you are in awful bad ground. Mine went anywhere between 3 meters and 5 meters apart and I plan to mole plough them when I get a dry summer. But it has worked seriously well. But you pay per meter not by distance apart so it has no bearing on price.

I also got the contractor to put stone underneath the pipe. (most won't as it takes extra time) but the stoning cart on the morooka made it easy.
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Ah mucky I'm not on here to argue with anyone and you are on here long enough to know that :wink:

I wouldn't be a fan of the black Cherry piping at all and we do have some land done here with it.

You picked me up wrong on the 3/5ft - I was referring to depth not distance apart. Most here is done at 15m. It does vast depending on dualations and where old ditches were.

Like jf850, it's 2in stone here too but washed. In fact, the easiest way to describe it is it's like the bigger stones in gravel.
 
nashmach said:
Ah mucky I'm not on here to argue with anyone and you are on here long enough to know that :wink:

I wouldn't be a fan of the black Cherry piping at all and we do have some land done here with it.

You picked me up wrong on the 3/5ft - I was referring to depth not distance apart. Most here is done at 15m. It does vast depending on dualations and where old ditches were.

Like jf850, it's 2in stone here too but washed. In fact, the easiest way to describe it is it's like the bigger stones in gravel.
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What is black cherry piping, is that the same as the yellow drainage piping that comes in the coil and has all the ribs on the inside as well as the outside, the only piping anyone uses around here now is the 20ft lengths of black 4inch sewer piping
 
lough said:
What is black cherry piping, is that the same as the yellow drainage piping that comes in the coil and has all the ribs on the inside as well as the outside, the only piping anyone uses around here now is the 20ft lengths of black 4inch sewer piping
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I will get you a picture of both types tomorrow.
 
Having seen both the black Cherry piping and the yellow Cork Plastics piping the black piping actually looks the better product to me purely because it doesn't look as brittle as the yellow.

However I never took any notice of what slits were in each one.
 
Jeez lads there is some high costs per acre being spent here.
I was asking @jf 850 earlier in the thread about his digger man divining.
My method is divine the field,Mark the springs.then dig a test hole at each one to establishvthe depth the water is running in the gravel at.
Next I use a laser level to see where I have to go to get the outfall
.this can be a problem in flat land.
My simple understanding is that a spring is an underground river which flows in gravel in high ground unseen.when it reaches lower ground and has no gravel to flow in it spreads out and seeps everywhere wetting the ground.i try to start the shore in the high ground picking up the flow in the gravel then piping it through the impermeable ground to a drain. A small number of shores do this usually and they generally run all year round whereas I see men putting in shores in places that never run water as they 're in the impermeable layer so the water can't get to the pipe.
Fair enough if u go every 3m but it's very expensive
 
vf949 said:
Having seen both the black Cherry piping and the yellow Cork Plastics piping the black piping actually looks the better product to me purely because it doesn't look as brittle as the yellow.

However I never took any notice of what slits were in each one.
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The only other thing I will add is that the Cork Plastics piping is larger than the Cherry, by approximately half an inch on a 4in pipe. You'd notice it when trying to shove it up a sewerage pipe at the outlet to a drain.
 
vf949 said:
Having seen both the black Cherry piping and the yellow Cork Plastics piping the black piping actually looks the better product to me purely because it doesn't look as brittle as the yellow.

However I never took any notice of what slits were in each one.
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It's actually the opposite. The black pipe is usually made from recycled plastic and is probably more structurally solid than the cherry yellow but it is more brittle. I can't comment in the Cork plastic yellow pipe because we have never used it.
 
Seedsower said:
Jeez lads there is some high costs per acre being spent here.
I was asking @jf 850 earlier in the thread about his digger man divining.
My method is divine the field,Mark the springs.then dig a test hole at each one to establishvthe depth the water is running in the gravel at.
Next I use a laser level to see where I have to go to get the outfall
.this can be a problem in flat land.
My simple understanding is that a spring is an underground river which flows in gravel in high ground unseen.when it reaches lower ground and has no gravel to flow in it spreads out and seeps everywhere wetting the ground.i try to start the shore in the high ground picking up the flow in the gravel then piping it through the impermeable ground to a drain. A small number of shores do this usually and they generally run all year round whereas I see men putting in shores in places that never run water as they 're in the impermeable layer so the water can't get to the pipe.
Fair enough if u go every 3m but it's very expensive
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You have explained it well , Seedsower. I forgot the laser level part .Our lad would start by making sure the main drain was as deep as it could be , and outfalls into neighbours/stream etc. The 1st wet spot I got him to do , he put a mounding bucket shore through the middle of a hollow. It was so wet the 110/90 and stoning cart couldn't travel it in places , and he had to put the stone in there with the EX 120. It grew 2 crops of spring barley after that , and its still dry and in grass. I asked him how far apart we would put the shores apart , going into that big one. He replied " I take it you are thinking of copying that job I did up the road . I d say your budget would be a bit smaller than that mans. He had development money to get rid of ". leave yours , and stick an odd shore into any wet patches appear , next year." I did a couple of small shores the next year with my own 50 , and mole ploughed after another while.

On the yellow v black pipe , I have to say , I brought the black the last time, purely on looks , and the branch I got it in had both types.
 
Local supplier says they sell none of the yellow plastic pipe anymore as it brittle and collapses far easier
 
There are more slits in the length of the black , so work out similar. Put a piece of each on the ground , and stand on each.
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marco said:
Local supplier says they sell none of the yellow plastic pipe anymore as it brittle and collapses far easier
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There's an orange one that's really brittle. I have not seen it for sale recently. But the yellow in the pic above is similar to what we use and it's streets ahead of the black. The black is prone to kinking when you roll it out. It also gets very brittle when in the ground. The yellow doesn't
 
In recent times it's always been the black, was redoing a place earlier in the year that was done maybe 25 years ago with yellow pipe, it was all clogged up. The lad that was doing the job would anchor one end of the length of pipe and pull the other before pinning it with a scoop of stone, he reckons it opens up the holes a bit by stretching it. 2" washed round stone.
 
Arthur said:
In recent times it's always been the black, was redoing a place earlier in the year that was done maybe 25 years ago with yellow pipe, it was all clogged up. The lad that was doing the job would anchor one end of the length of pipe and pull the other before pinning it with a scoop of stone, he reckons it opens up the holes a bit by stretching it. 2" washed round stone.
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The lads would do the same here, it's more time consuming alright but works well.
 
is that black pipe the stuff that comes in rolls??
think cherry do 20ft lengths of dual wall pipe also, same as corripipe but can be bought at slightly better value
 
podge 23 said:
An lads that have that kinda ground drained then do ye get many years out of it,is it a succss?
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Bog ground drained here for 5 or 6 years now. No stone. Some with connacht agri pipe and some with yellow 3" pipe covered in terram. The yellow pipe with terram works better than the connacht agri pipe. It's cheaper to buy/make up and it's easier and cheaper to put it in. In the process of making up another 2000 meters for to install in spring.
 
lough said:
Does the black pipe have ribs on the inside like the yellow pipe or is it smooth, Does anyone that is putting in them yellow pipes have iron ore in the ground
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The black pipe is not smooth inside. Ridges the same as the yellow stuff.
 
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