clover

tinman

Very Senior Member
did someone tell me that some ground is more suitable for clover than others, maybe im mistaken tho.
if i was reseeding another bit would it be advisable to get a seed mixture with a decent clover content, or sow it separately after the seed.
or is there enuf of it in a good mix (how you tell that i don't know as there seems to be a billion different variety's ) that should be good enuf.

how essential is clover in a swart, i know the plus factors of the nitrogen but is it recommended for all types of ground.
also, there is red and white clover, what's the difference?.
 

Larry David

Very Senior Member
Something I would love to have but with a high stocking rate at home with high N usage, its not persistent. It Very digestible and palatable. Went to an open day in Solohead a few years ago to see the Teagasc farm that uses alot of clover, very impressed.

They were oversowing 5kg/Ha with 0-7-30 after silage with dilute slurry applied after, no more N for the rest of the year, grazed tight to let light in. Got great result

Red clover is more suited the silage, I think it likes better land, doesn't like wet land
 

Corkrally

Well-Known Member
http://www.thecattlesite.com/articles/1768/reducing-nitrogen-costs-using-clover-teagasc
this is a good article, teagasc in moorepark have lots of good research done on clover- it might be worth talking with your local teagasc adviser. potentially very significant savings on nitrogen if the clover establishes well, agree with comments on red clover, more suited to bulk/silage or even organic production systems. The ground type isnt a big issue for clover, will grow equally well in wet and dry conditions imo.
http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media...cations/GrassCloverRecomListVarieties2011.pdf

the Dept have some very useful info on grass and clover varieties at the link above, as you say, there are a million mixes out there. these lists score each variety on its own merits and so you can pick and choose the varieties for your own mix if you want.

this is also from teagasc:

"The recommended sowing rate of clover is 1.0 to 2.0 kg seed per acre (2.5 to 5.0 kg/ha). The lower rate is recommended following crops such as maize etc. The higher rate is recommended in grass-to-grass reseeds. The clover seed is sown with around 10 to 12 kg perennial ryegrass seed per acre (25 to 30 kg/ha).For REPS the minimum rate is 5 kg/ha"

the only proviso is to be very careful with weed sprays once the clover is growing!!!
i like the dilute slurry sowing method, but can get good results one passing, ploughing etc also
hope this helps!!
 

denis086

Well-Known Member
We reseeded 11 acres a few weeks back and just put grasses in the seed mix we got a special mix from our teagasc advisor and got it made up through the bretts rep. Anyway we didnt put in clover so we let the grasses establish themselves and next year we can give the field a good going over with sprays to clean it of any docks etc then graze it tight. Spread the clover give it a couple of loads of watery slurry and keep it grazed for a while so it establishes itself.

We havent done any real reseeding in a long time because of our stocking rate so were experimenting a bit with this so well see how this goes. I read somewhere that its important to catch docks within their first 2yrs of growth hence why well spray it next year.

I spread a master crop grass seed mix last year after second cut last year on two silage fields which got fert and slurry soon after and there was definitely a difference this year id say the clover really took in places

I belive the main differences between red and white clover is: red is low productivity, hairy leaves, red flower, grows taller, while white is high productivity, smooth leaves, white flower, and has a creeping characteristic that helps it become dominant and smothers weeds etc while it boosts growth of grass around it by fixing nitrogen in the soil. clover belongs to the same family as furze bushes so it has no problem growing in poor soils because it produces its own nitrogen :thumbup1:
 

headcase

Very Senior Member
We reseeded 11 acres a few weeks back and just put grasses in the seed mix we got a special mix from our teagasc advisor and got it made up through the bretts rep. Anyway we didnt put in clover so we let the grasses establish themselves and next year we can give the field a good going over with sprays to clean it of any docks etc then graze it tight. Spread the clover give it a couple of loads of watery slurry and keep it grazed for a while so it establishes itself.

We havent done any real reseeding in a long time because of our stocking rate so were experimenting a bit with this so well see how this goes. I read somewhere that its important to catch docks within their first 2yrs of growth hence why well spray it next year.

I spread a master crop grass seed mix last year after second cut last year on two silage fields which got fert and slurry soon after and there was definitely a difference this year id say the clover really took in places

I belive the main differences between red and white clover is: red is low productivity, hairy leaves, red flower, grows taller, while white is high productivity, smooth leaves, white flower, and has a creeping characteristic that helps it become dominant and smothers weeds etc while it boosts growth of grass around it by fixing nitrogen in the soil. clover belongs to the same family as furze bushes so it has no problem growing in poor soils because it produces its own nitrogen :thumbup1:
we had some fields where it was takeng over
best thing i ever did was spray the docks there;)
 

headcase

Very Senior Member
this is like pullin teeth.

so are you saying the ground is better off without the clover...
maybe you had a weed problem.
there is still clover there but i took 90% out with the dock spray
clover self seeds here,i havent sowed a clover mix for years and the fields are full of it about 3 years after reseeding
i know theres the nitrogen benifits but it spreads so much it smotheres the grass something terrible here
 

tinman

Very Senior Member
there is still clover there but i took 90% out with the dock spray
clover self seeds here,i havent sowed a clover mix for years and the fields are full of it about 3 years after reseeding
i know theres the nitrogen benifits but it spreads so much it smotheres the grass something terrible here
i get you now, basically ya need to keep control of it just.
 

headcase

Very Senior Member
i get you now, basically ya need to keep control of it just.
i like clover in the sward but when it gets like it did:no:
if id have thought i could have taken pics before and after
imo too much clover makes silage and haylege wetter and harder to dry,it also shrivles up to nothing when its dry
 

Jay Dee

Well-Known Member
there is still clover there but i took 90% out with the dock spray
clover self seeds here,i havent sowed a clover mix for years and the fields are full of it about 3 years after reseeding
i know theres the nitrogen benifits but it spreads so much it smotheres the grass something terrible here
Pretty much the same here, I'm no fan of it myself....pig slurry sorts it out :whistling:.
 

nashmach

Well-Known Member
Last field we reseeded is full of it. Very cheap feed in my view but you do have to watch for cattle bloating. After 2 weeks of no rain, the field is green with it again and cattle are back grazing on it with no fertiliser.

In fact this field has got no bagged fertiliser since it was reseeded and kept 15 cattle over 7 acres from July to nearly October 15th last year, a few wooly mites over the winter and 10 bales / acre of silage and now another 11 bullocks.

To be fair I would like more grass in it but it will come I am sure with some rain.
 

nashmach

Well-Known Member
After all my talk on clover we have just taken two cattle off it within the past hour as one swelled up hugely!
 

telemetry

Well-Known Member
After all my talk on clover we have just taken two cattle off it within the past hour as one swelled up hugely!

Saw one with a bit of bloat from white clover here yerterday, changed my opinoin of it quickly enough! Vet to puncture after back of the ribs?
 

nashmach

Well-Known Member
Is this the first case you had? I guess its always a risk with clover. There is a product you put in the water to stop it.

This is one from Nutribio.
http://www.nutribio.ie/productsolutions/bloat.html

First this year. They are on breadsoda in the meal and also have access to straw.

I remembered that stuff from before but it is not an option for that field as water comes from a stream.

Saw one with a bit of bloat from white clover here yerterday, changed my opinoin of it quickly enough! Vet to puncture after back of the ribs?

No got in time. Walked him around and put him in a non-clover field. He went down once we walked him about 300 yards from one end of the farm to the other.
 

Full Francis B

New Member
http://www.thecattlesite.com/articles/1768/reducing-nitrogen-costs-using-clover-teagasc
this is a good article, teagasc in moorepark have lots of good research done on clover- it might be worth talking with your local teagasc adviser. potentially very significant savings on nitrogen if the clover establishes well, agree with comments on red clover, more suited to bulk/silage or even organic production systems. The ground type isnt a big issue for clover, will grow equally well in wet and dry conditions imo.
http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media...cations/GrassCloverRecomListVarieties2011.pdf

the Dept have some very useful info on grass and clover varieties at the link above, as you say, there are a million mixes out there. these lists score each variety on its own merits and so you can pick and choose the varieties for your own mix if you want.

this is also from teagasc:

"The recommended sowing rate of clover is 1.0 to 2.0 kg seed per acre (2.5 to 5.0 kg/ha). The lower rate is recommended following crops such as maize etc. The higher rate is recommended in grass-to-grass reseeds. The clover seed is sown with around 10 to 12 kg perennial ryegrass seed per acre (25 to 30 kg/ha).For REPS the minimum rate is 5 kg/ha"

the only proviso is to be very careful with weed sprays once the clover is growing!!!
i like the dilute slurry sowing method, but can get good results one passing, ploughing etc also
hope this helps!!
Hi lads, looking to get some clover into fields this year, re seeded 30 acres over the last 5 years, can it be sown directly into estalished grass land. Any ideas
 

13spanner

Well-Known Member
Cut bottom out of a mineral bottle. 1 litre or more. Drill a hole in the cap and put a piece of tubing into the hole in the cap. Suspend the bottle a fertliser spreader. Run the piece of tubing from the bottle down onto the spinner. Put in your clover seed into the bottle and it will run down through the pipe on to the spinner while you drive around listening to Declan nurney. Roll it in.
 
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