josh
Moderator/IT Guy
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No Till biological farming
- Thread starter Louis mc
- Start date
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Masseyrk662
Well-Known Member
O
Ugo Schtiglitz
Well-Known Member
I'll just make the tay. Because there's no popcorn emoji.
gone
Well-Known Member
In my opinion there is a very big difference between the regenerative agricultural pioneers doing farm scale research and moronic forced rewilding or the recreational tillage rules brought in here without any thought. Conflating the 2 seems odd.
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towbar
Well-Known Member
I'm in the mode sun is shining rain on the way and I cant get cutting 
So I could say exactly the same about conventional till which is in many cases also based on emotion - the aversion to change emotion 'My ancestors have being doing it this way for the last 150 years so it must be right'.
I don't think @Crops you make your decisions based on emotion nor indeed do most progressive farmers. You don't plough for beans or WOSR because it makes sense not too. Does that make you an emotive regen farmer?
I know my light soils could not continue to sustain the ploughing process - all our hills were getting stripped bare from continuous tillage. We purposely took over ploughing ourselves to try and turn clay up the hills, we drew in topsoil where we got it - very possibly a bad mistake! If I had ample soil I would still plough for spring crops.
I also know we pushed our yields in 2012-16 and try as we might we could not cross 3.5t. I didn't see prices going up so instead I took the decision to optimise input costs - again possibly a mistake as prices have finally risen however I'm content that I have a lower risk profile as level of upfront investment in crop is lower.
Also I really liked @Sheebadog post last week I also believe we over produce food. I know how much waste food we throw out here - its criminal, I think this will eventually come into focus.
Finally whether we like it or not the consumer attitude is changing. The next generation are hearing nothing but environment. Politicians automatically jump to follow the trend, regulation is already following - we can ignore it, we can fight it, we can protest about it but that change is already underway, so in my view its better to get ahead of it at least somewhat.
Now tell me my case for regen ag (although I don't like that term at all ) is based on emotion not analysis. I'm not saying my analysis is valid for everybody but for our farm at this point my analysis suggests that an alternative to conventional approach is required.
So I could say exactly the same about conventional till which is in many cases also based on emotion - the aversion to change emotion 'My ancestors have being doing it this way for the last 150 years so it must be right'.
I don't think @Crops you make your decisions based on emotion nor indeed do most progressive farmers. You don't plough for beans or WOSR because it makes sense not too. Does that make you an emotive regen farmer?
I know my light soils could not continue to sustain the ploughing process - all our hills were getting stripped bare from continuous tillage. We purposely took over ploughing ourselves to try and turn clay up the hills, we drew in topsoil where we got it - very possibly a bad mistake! If I had ample soil I would still plough for spring crops.
I also know we pushed our yields in 2012-16 and try as we might we could not cross 3.5t. I didn't see prices going up so instead I took the decision to optimise input costs - again possibly a mistake as prices have finally risen however I'm content that I have a lower risk profile as level of upfront investment in crop is lower.
Also I really liked @Sheebadog post last week I also believe we over produce food. I know how much waste food we throw out here - its criminal, I think this will eventually come into focus.
Finally whether we like it or not the consumer attitude is changing. The next generation are hearing nothing but environment. Politicians automatically jump to follow the trend, regulation is already following - we can ignore it, we can fight it, we can protest about it but that change is already underway, so in my view its better to get ahead of it at least somewhat.
Now tell me my case for regen ag (although I don't like that term at all ) is based on emotion not analysis. I'm not saying my analysis is valid for everybody but for our farm at this point my analysis suggests that an alternative to conventional approach is required.
marco
Well-Known Member
Wrong, shouldn't a farmers aim be maximum profit not maximum yields?
Ugo Schtiglitz
Well-Known Member
My accountant thinks I've discovered the third secret of fatima tbh
JohnBoy
Well-Known Member
I don't think that's true. Most moves towards regenerative agriculture, or indeed most environmental regulation increases are based on analysis.
Just like Mr Richardson's views are based on analysis.
The problem is they're based on Analysis of different topics and too many policy decisions are based on single topic analyses.
There's a distinct lack of joined up thinking/overall strategy. Do we want to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, improve biodiversity, improve water quality, improve food security, increase food output, increase farmer incomes, increase food processing jobs, increase Larry's personal wealth?
There's no overall plan, we're trying to do all of these things all at once even though some may be very much at odds with each other. There's no one right answer but it is maddening to see the opposing requirements of different long term aims.
gone
Well-Known Member
What research and or analysis went into our forced recreational tillage measure?
marco
Well-Known Member
I think that was a case of how to get a cover crop without paying a farmer to do it
gone
Well-Known Member
I think it is botch, that will destroy our tillage bird numbers, that was ill thought through, not in any way researched or unaliased.
BirdWatch Ireland warn Ministers that cuts in winter stubble could hammer farmland bird populations - BirdWatch Ireland
BirdWatch Ireland today warns Minister Darragh O’Brien, Minister Malcolm Noonan and Minister Charlie McConalogue that changes in the regulation of nitrates to require that tillage farmers reduce winter stubble by...
birdwatchireland.ie
Crops
Well-Known Member
I’m onto my second box of popcorn, where are the minstrels?
I wasn’t expecting such a good reaction and lots of valid comments above.
Ugo Schtiglitz
Well-Known Member
I'd go so far as to say unworkableI think it is botch, that will destroy our tillage bird numbers, that was ill thought through, not in any way researched or unaliased.
BirdWatch Ireland warn Ministers that cuts in winter stubble could hammer farmland bird populations - BirdWatch Ireland
BirdWatch Ireland today warns Minister Darragh O’Brien, Minister Malcolm Noonan and Minister Charlie McConalogue that changes in the regulation of nitrates to require that tillage farmers reduce winter stubble by...
JohnBoy
Well-Known Member
F*cked if I know. someone saw some study somewhere suggesting that action A will lead to outcome B and a light bulb went off and they did a solo run, there's some basis for it somewhere in a folder in a drawer in Johnstown castle I'm sure.
but it's not joined to any other aim or goal nor is it part of any plan and that's the problem
Ozzy Scott
Well-Known Member
Just to be aware, it most certainly wasnt a solo run by anyone. there was a minibus full of Department of Ag bigwigs that were behind this recreational tillage measure. they were told the outcomes, how silly what they were pushing was and still choose to drive on. When it all goes tits up, they should be on the block, as to claim ignorance is bullshite
jcb411abuser
Well-Known Member
I'd agree that the media narrative is skewed incredibly and I mean that literally.
For those multispecies/grass+clover vs grass trials/farmtalks, they often ignore yield! And the ones that do talk about yield seem to skim over important facts.
150kgN per hectare in grass plus clover yields similar or the same as 250kgN/ha of pure grass.
So that's about roughly 100kgs per acre or 200 units, which is only enough fert for 100 days?? Of a 180-200 day growing season.
Or I could be wrong?
JohnBoy
Well-Known Member
OK.
My point was there's no joined up thinking in any of this, not sure what the recreational tillage plan has to do with me
gone
Well-Known Member
Sorry, that was me, it is my go to example of the lack of planning and analysis, emotional do-gooders with little or no knowledge.
towbar
Well-Known Member
The problem with these measures is the assumption that a generic plan can apply to every farmer in the country. Its like the slurry spreading dates applied nationally regardless of the weather. The problem is the 'officials' are caught between the farmers they can trust to do the right thing and the ones that haven't a clue and need a carrot stick approach. Take the 3 crop rule, I was very against it but having being forced to use now see the benefits, maybe I would eventually have adopted it but how do you force people to think differently. I guess derogation was an attempt to allow farmers to 'earn' the right to allow them work outside the range by adopting best practises. Is that the way forward?
Crops
Well-Known Member
I’m definitely the fella on the right.
I bet that despite his appearance and age, he will walk out to the car park and hop into his open top Ferrari and tear off down the road with his 28yr old model girlfriend. Then he’ll go for a hape of pints @Blackwater boy style to practice for tomorrow’s golf.
The other lad will have a glass of still water and spend the afternoon doing yoga while worrying about what other people think of him/climate crisis/artificial meat.
They’ll both die sometime.
nashmach
Well-Known Member
Crops
Well-Known Member
I didn’t know anything about him and assume the other lad is Tiger Woods. John Daly has that look….lolNot far wrong....
John Daly (golfer) - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org