Propionic Acid

jf 850

Well-Known Member
@TAFKAT has rolled barley for me for 7 or 8 years , applying acid to it . He doesn't supply the acid , but a mutual aquiatance does . One year "Propcorn " was not available . The alternative was unfit for purpose , imo. It was heating by the the end of January . Propcorn does what it says on the tin . If its not available , I may have to question bothering with that operation .
 

TAFKAT

Well-Known Member
@TAFKAT has rolled barley for me for 7 or 8 years , applying acid to it . He doesn't supply the acid , but a mutual aquiatance does . One year "Propcorn " was not available . The alternative was unfit for purpose , imo. It was heating by the the end of January . Propcorn does what it says on the tin . If its not available , I may have to question bothering with that operation .
I'd say you won't be on your own there I'm afraid. The product we used that year is 90% propionic acid so that isn't available either, even though I wouldn't be a fan of it myself. Options are very limited bar you get grain off the combine dry enough to store and roll a batch at a time as you need it. @Blackwater boy I made enquiries about Myco Curb and was reliably informed that it's only suitable for treating whole grain and needs to be used in conjunction with air so that's not a runner either, and even supplies of that are limited.
 

mixedbag

Well-Known Member
I'd say you won't be on your own there I'm afraid. The product we used that year is 90% propionic acid so that isn't available either, even though I wouldn't be a fan of it myself. Options are very limited bar you get grain off the combine dry enough to store and roll a batch at a time as you need it. @Blackwater boy I made enquiries about Myco Curb and was reliably informed that it's only suitable for treating whole grain and needs to be used in conjunction with air so that's not a runner either, and even supplies of that are limited.
Why is the acid not available? Supply issue? safety? Commercial decision?
 

Ozzy Scott

Well-Known Member
I could make a few suggestions, but they may do @TAFKAT out of a job.

Allot depends on the amount used per day. Buying off a merchant will have to be competitive if the current operation is costing ā‚¬30 a ton, as they won't have cost of acid and their rolling costs are miniscule compared to onfarm rolling, plus you don't have finance or storage charges on the grain. There are a few other options for onfarm feeding of grain, but depends if you want work, or happy with grain losses
 
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TAFKAT

Well-Known Member
I could make a few suggestions, but they will do @TAFKAT out of a job.

Allot depends on the amount used per day. Buying off a merchant will have to be competitive if the current operation is costing ā‚¬30 a ton, as they won't have cost of acid and their rolling costs are miniscule compared to onfarm rolling, plus you don't have finance or storage charges on the grain. There are a few other options for onfarm feeding of grain, but depends if you want work, or happy with grain losses
This is a discussion forum, go ahead. But on the first point, as one man said to me this week, "I've been growing my own barley for years, and I have no wild oats, but if I send my barley into (insert merchant of your choice) I won't get my own grain back"
 

Ozzy Scott

Well-Known Member
This is a discussion forum, go ahead. But on the first point, as one man said to me this week, "I've been growing my own barley for years, and I have no wild oats, but if I send my barley into (insert merchant of your choice) I won't get my own graināø back"
And I would agree with that man, I have preferred suppliers of cereals as they would go above and beyond to product a much better product than the commodity spec available

It may frightening people with the idea of feeding whole cereals to animals, many people wouldn't be able to look at the losses, but more often than not they don't cover an on farm rolling charge. Im current using whole oats, peas and beans, and besides a small % of oats coming through, it grand.

I assume caustic treating isn't economical atm either, last time I bought it, it was nearly ā‚¬20 a ton, but it was a super ingredient.

Whole urea treating is probably a non runner as you have to exclude the air from the heap.

Sprouting is doable, but takes allot of faffing about to get it to work, but when it does, its a super job. Done a good bit this year, but you wouldn't want any more than a half ton a day.

Probably the Most feasible option for most is cutting at under 17% and batch roll during the usage period.
 

TAFKAT

Well-Known Member
And I would agree with that man, I have preferred suppliers of cereals as they would go above and beyond to product a much better product than the commodity spec available

It may frightening people with the idea of feeding whole cereals to animals, many people wouldn't be able to look at the losses, but more often than not they don't cover an on farm rolling charge. Im current using whole oats, peas and beans, and besides a small % of oats coming through, it grand.

I assume caustic treating isn't economical atm either, last time I bought it, it was nearly ā‚¬20 a ton, but it was a super ingredient.

Whole urea treating is probably a non runner as you have to exclude the air from the heap.

Sprouting is doable, but takes allot of faffing about to get it to work, but when it does, its a super job. Done a good bit this year, but you wouldn't want any more than a half ton a day.
Losses from feeding whole oats are fairly miniscule compared to barley. Telling guys they can feed whole oats isn't much use if they have 40 acres of barley nearly ready to harvest.........

As for the other ideas, the beauty of propcorn is the simplicity of the system. The urea + enzyme treatments, as already mentioned, are by comparison both expensive and relatively complicated. I have seen very good results, and bad ones, as I said earlier propionic is pretty much foolproof if enough acid is used. I am doing myself out of a job with this discussion, but there is no obvious alternative. We can only hope for good weather and sub 17% grain off the combine, and roll batches as needed every 6-8 weeks.
 

Ozzy Scott

Well-Known Member
Losses from feeding whole oats are fairly miniscule compared to barley. Telling guys they can feed whole oats isn't much use if they have 40 acres of barley nearly ready to harvest.........

As for the other ideas, the beauty of propcorn is the simplicity of the system. The urea + enzyme treatments, as already mentioned, are by comparison both expensive and relatively complicated. I have seen very good results, and bad ones, as I said earlier propionic is pretty much foolproof if enough acid is used. I am doing myself out of a job with this discussion, but there is no obvious alternative. We can only hope for good weather and sub 17% grain off the combine, and roll batches as needed every 6-8 weeks.
When i say Urea treatment, I don't meant the ridiculous home&dry type stuff, im talking about feed grade urea mixed in.

I have fed barley and maize whole aswell and similarily no problems, but can be hard at times to look at grains in the dungs, have never fed wheat

I'm well aware of the simplicity, and getting the rolling all done on the one day but its not possible this year. There was a additive @Sheebadog was saying was been used on crimp maize in France that was seriously stable and price was cheap, it may work on dry grain?
 

TAFKAT

Well-Known Member
When i say Urea treatment, I don't meant the ridiculous home&dry type stuff, im talking about feed grade urea mixed in.

I have fed barley and maize whole aswell and similarily no problems, but can be hard at times to look at grains in the dungs, have never fed wheat

I'm well aware of the simplicity, and getting the rolling all done on the one day but its not possible this year. There was a additive @Sheebadog was saying was been used on crimp maize in France that was seriously stable and price was cheap, it may work on dry grain?
I have never used feed grade urea without an enzyme, and as I said results have been mixed at that, it might be ok throwing a couple of hundred tonnes into a heap in the middle of the yard but I would be dealing with a lot of 10-30 tonnes per year customers so they like to have minimal wastage.
I would imagine the amount of wastage in feeding whole barley would be colossal, the monetary figures might be acceptable but I doubt many could look at it. We only ever fed whole barley to hens.
 
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