The future

Is there actual evidence of this or was it dreamed up by a couple of individuals around a barrel fire outside a meat factory gate?

400 tons of beef that was imported to Ireland last year was of and I quote "unknown (non EU)" origin, but 400 tons is, to quote BoJO, chicken feed

I think 91% of Irish beef imports come from GB and NI.
 
Absolutely. Done right, forestry could really tighten up beef supply. The last 30 years has seen it not being done right. Wrong types of trees planted in the wrong places. Grants that encourage investors to buy up any land that becomes available giving little chance to local farmers that may want to buy land to expand. A lack of farmers planting parts of their own land, maintaining the trees themselves and using the grants to supplement income. Forestry policy in this country was drawn up by TD's who were influenced by big business. Forestry is now an investment business of investment companies and non farmers. It has been taken out of the hands of farmers because they were priced out of it and there is no way to revert forested land back into agricultural land and that should not have been allowed to happen.

A lot of Conifers alright, very little hardwood. I think the soft wood plantations should be banned.
 
Forestry after taking a big hit in the last couple of months, we own 100 acres of managed forestry and the value after dropping big time. Wood is coming in from Germany in huge amounts
 
If I was to be milking cows in 10/15 years time I would plan to have the following set up:

300+cows, milked in a rotary parlour, all replacement stock contracted reared i.e leave at 2 weeks old and return 4 weeks prior to calving, all major farm duties i.e silage slurry winter feeding ( especially during the calving season) contracted out, minimum number of expensive machinery in the yard.
 
400 tons of beef that was imported to Ireland last year was of and I quote "unknown (non EU)" origin, but 400 tons is, to quote BoJO, chicken feed

I think 91% of Irish beef imports come from GB and NI.
There are a certain amount of beef products imported from around the world to Ireland such as jerky and biltong. There is also a certain amount of beef that comes from South America. But this claim that Larry is bringing in container loads of polish beef every week in unfounded imo.
 
A lot of Conifers alright, very little hardwood. I think the soft wood plantations should be banned.
Planting hardwoods would be for the next generation apart from ash and that has been hit by dieback, anyone planting would hope to get financial reward in their lifetime but even a sitka plantation will be 30 years before clearfell so there wont be too many over 30's planting that will benefit more than once, what is got from thinnings and grants is not doing much more than replacing what could be earned from grassland.
 
If I was to be milking cows in 10/15 years time I would plan to have the following set up:

300+cows, milked in a rotary parlour, all replacement stock contracted reared i.e leave at 2 weeks old and return 4 weeks prior to calving, all major farm duties i.e silage slurry winter feeding ( especially during the calving season) contracted out, minimum number of expensive machinery in the yard.

That is exactly what pallaskenry ag farm are doing now and according to a teacher there, it is in absolutely huge debt. Something to think about, more cows more hardship and your only milking more cows to pay for a contractor to do do the jobs. Just my view on it.
 
That is exactly what pallaskenry ag farm are doing now and according to a teacher there, it is in absolutely huge debt. Something to think about, more cows more hardship and your only milking more cows to pay for a contractor to do do the jobs. Just my view on it.

If you have to expand cows numbers to maintain income then it has to be done by keeping labour input low. Invest in technology or pay wages every week. And the problem with labour is that it very scarce at least as long as the country stays at near full employment.
 
If I was to be milking cows in 10/15 years time I would plan to have the following set up:

300+cows, milked in a rotary parlour, all replacement stock contracted reared i.e leave at 2 weeks old and return 4 weeks prior to calving, all major farm duties i.e silage slurry winter feeding ( especially during the calving season) contracted out, minimum number of expensive machinery in the yard.
i know plenty of lads doing that already and they would have a better lifestyle in jail
 
i know plenty of lads doing that already and they would have a better lifestyle in jail
Ya the problem I see with the loadsa cow route is that you have to start milking at stupid o'clock in the morning and if anything happens during the day you get no break before milking in the evening. Plus getting very reliant on rented land once you borrow to go big.
 
@Sheebadog would know more than me but I think in France there are a lot of absentee land owners who never see their land except for an annual rental payment into their bank account. The land parcels involved wouldn’t always be big.

Farms have always been getting bigger and farmers fewer and that will continue.

Technology is a big factor which will allow one person to farm extra acres or more stock numbers.

Technology Is Not going to help though when you've a calf coming backwards or lambs coming everyday!

Yes technology/mechanization can certainly allow someone to farm more arable ground but for livestock there comes a crunch point.
 
It's easy change a 4 meter drill for a 6 meter. its impossible to go from calving 200 cows to 300 without good help.


Technology Is Not going to help though when you've a calf coming backwards or lambs coming everyday!

Yes technology/mechanization can certainly allow someone to farm more arable ground but for livestock there comes a crunch point.

Of course human intervention will be needed on livestock farms at particular times but the likes of robotic milking, drone technology for monitoring grassland etc are coming.

Technology has already decreased the number of man hours spent farming animals. Just roll back the clock by 50 years and what was the average number of hours spent working per unit litre of milk produced - it was certainly more than now.
Remember that technology doesn’t just mean mechanical gadgets, genetics is a big part of the productivity growth.

To be fair, I should have made a broader statement than just increasing animal numbers per person, this is just part of the picture. A more accurate measure should be an increase in units of produce per human hour employed.

And, the reluctance in the ability of the price of our produce to increase over the decades is mainly due to the increase in output per human hour employed (aswell as increased acres farmed in some countries).

That’s without even discussing the likes of pig & poultry units.
 
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There’s nothing wrong with debt as long as you have the capacity to pay it off. You need to look at the long term picture, and as an investment what’s your return on capital/investment
 
There are a certain amount of beef products imported from around the world to Ireland such as jerky and biltong. There is also a certain amount of beef that comes from South America. But this claim that Larry is bringing in container loads of polish beef every week in unfounded imo.

True, in relation to what comes from the UK its negligible. Probably lads dreaming as you say.

Planting hardwoods would be for the next generation apart from ash and that has been hit by dieback, anyone planting would hope to get financial reward in their lifetime but even a sitka plantation will be 30 years before clearfell so there wont be too many over 30's planting that will benefit more than once, what is got from thinnings and grants is not doing much more than replacing what could be earned from grassland.

With Ash at least you'll have a few thinnings and the timber is worth more. But I agree, more an investment for the next generation.

With dieback, they give a grant to cover the cost of thinning the diseased trees and the idea is the stronger ones should be ok.

As you say though, more an investment for the next generation. The premium for hardwoods is generally a good bit better.

I did some rough calculations on It before. Allowing for the first thinning in year 15, and the premiums stay much the same with 2% annual inflation, you could buy the land for 3400 an acre, plant, and between premiums and the value of the thinning have your investment returned by year 15.

Then you're up whatever the residual value of the forest is.
 
True, in relation to what comes from the UK its negligible. Probably lads dreaming as you say.



With Ash at least you'll have a few thinnings and the timber is worth more. But I agree, more an investment for the next generation.

With dieback, they give a grant to cover the cost of thinning the diseased trees and the idea is the stronger ones should be ok.

As you say though, more an investment for the next generation. The premium for hardwoods is generally a good bit better.

I did some rough calculations on It before. Allowing for the first thinning in year 15, and the premiums stay much the same with 2% annual inflation, you could buy the land for 3400 an acre, plant, and between premiums and the value of the thinning have your investment returned by year 15.

Then you're up whatever the residual value of the forest is.
A lot of cattle move over and back across the border to avail of a vat input credit. Whether they physically move is another question. The EU have asked the Dept of Finance to close this loophole but for some reason they still haven't taken any action to let Revenue do this..
 
A lot of cattle move over and back across the border to avail of a vat input credit. Whether they physically move is another question. The EU have asked the Dept of Finance to close this loophole but for some reason they still haven't taken any action to let Revenue do this..
can you explain that loophole, is it a case of changing stock values or what. Very few cattle are imported back into Ireland for slaughter once they have went the other way
 
A lot of cattle move over and back across the border to avail of a vat input credit. Whether they physically move is another question. The EU have asked the Dept of Finance to close this loophole but for some reason they still haven't taken any action to let Revenue do this..
Was that not similar to some practice in the poultry industry . I thought the days of pigs crossing the border collecting rebates and the hauliers having to have a tape of pigs squealing because they were so tired from traveling .
 
Was that not similar to some practice in the poultry industry . I thought the days of pigs crossing the border collecting rebates and the hauliers having to have a tape of pigs squealing because they were so tired from traveling .

Sounds like the lyrics to the transit van by Seamus Moore

Signed all the forms, handed back the pen
Smuggled a sow back home again
 
Was that not similar to some practice in the poultry industry . I thought the days of pigs crossing the border collecting rebates and the hauliers having to have a tape of pigs squealing because they were so tired from traveling .
Still goes on, the vat refund is the only profit with a lot of them. When a major figure in the industry owns a lot of the government office buildings there's not much going to change. It's like our VRT on cars which the EU has said is a double tax as it is charges on the vat inclusive car price, the govt just tell the EU to get lost when it suits them. The Revenue have taken action recently where they can prove that the transactions were paper and not based in reality.
 
I think I'm one of the farmers that are availing of such a fraud finishing a few cattle. I'm not vat registered is the crux. I pay vat buying and get paid vat selling. The difference between buying and selling (:scratchhead::lol:) is profit for me on the VAT, versus a registered company. Say animal gains 200, I make €9.60 on vat vs registered. Then again I dont reclaim vat on diesel, chemicals so I'm not sure where the big scam is happening
 
Still goes on, the vat refund is the only profit with a lot of them. When a major figure in the industry owns a lot of the government office buildings there's not much going to change. It's like our VRT on cars which the EU has said is a double tax as it is charges on the vat inclusive car price, the govt just tell the EU to get lost when it suits them. The Revenue have taken action recently where they can prove that the transactions were paper and not based in reality.

Could you explain how the vat refund works on cattle?

On the vrt, I did a good bit of research when buying a Jeep a while back, in the case of a new N1 the vrt is is calculated on the ex vat price.
 
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Could explain how the vat refund works on cattle?

On the vrt, I did a good bit of research when buying a Jeep a while back, in the case of a new N1 the vat is is calculated on the ex vat price.
Registered Irish business buys cattle from non-registered farmers. Claims the 5.4% back on his vat return. Exports same cattle. No vat on exports. But if he sold them in Ireland he'd have to pay the 4.8% on his sales. All legal but in some cases the same cattle can cross the border several times in their life. When you see so many feed lots around the border you would wonder. There's an organised crime element to this as well.
 
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