Beet Ireland

K

KJL

Well-Known Member
Beet Ireland is in the media again today after last nights tillage meeting.

What's the general view on getting beet growing, back up and running in this country?
 
Went to a few meetings a couple of years ago but it seemed to go off the boil since. Seems to be all talk just to keep the idea in people’s heads, just a headline about having a potential site identified but can’t ever give any details. When I was going to the meetings the cost to buy a half decent contract was going to be fairly significant and risky in my opinion, unless it was going to cost relatively little (which it won’t) I think I’d be happy enough getting €35-40t for fodder beet without having to buy a contract and knowing there won’t be surplus beet to bring down its price like in the past. I would love sugarbeet to be back again but don’t know if it will ever be viable.
 
Claas Grass said:
Went to a few meetings a couple of years ago but it seemed to go off the boil since. Seems to be all talk just to keep the idea in people’s heads, just a headline about having a potential site identified but can’t ever give any details. When I was going to the meetings the cost to buy a half decent contract was going to be fairly significant and risky in my opinion, unless it was going to cost relatively little (which it won’t) I think I’d be happy enough getting €35-40t for fodder beet without having to buy a contract and knowing there won’t be surplus beet to bring down its price like in the past. I would love sugarbeet to be back again but don’t know if it will ever be viable.
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I be nearly the same. Would like to see it back but think it’s goung to be to high risk and also I am happy with the price I am getting for my fodder beet And money I am making from that
 
On KCLR today it was said that the site was at Prumplestown, Co. Kildare but on this http://kclr96fm.com/revival-sugar-industry-hands-local-farmers/ there is no mention of such.
Pat Deering T.D. was on the radio and what I understand from what he was saying is there is no viability study in place.
I would think that without a business plan and viability study it would be hard to get farmers let alone investors interested.
 
Is there anything new in what was said last night lads because I fail to see it?

It's like beating the same old dead drum at this stage and about time something more concrete was laid out.

There was costs mentioned before and they were not surprisingly quite high (I think they were the income for a year roughly but could be mistaken?). One of the promoters mentioned yesterday it needed buy in like the stainless steel element on the milk price over the past few years. That completely ignores the point that people can judge that investment on it's past performance and it's more tangible to them rather than something new.

At this stage, do we even have the scale to do this in Ireland when you look at the UK plants? Is sugar produced here going to be just dumped on the cheapest market which is a sure way of being a folly... what is the upfront capital cost going to be or is there a secret wish that the IDA or someone else will pony up as well? Surely by now technology plays a huge part so the labour force will be small.

No one has mentioned the investment that will be needed at farmer level in machinery too. A vintage crop of Armer Cheetah and Beaver harvesters that are 25-30 years old won't last forever and most are just being kept going for pulling fodder beet now.

I'm from an area steeped in beet and would like to see it back for the economic and social benefits but if the numbers don't stack up.....
 
I would normally be a glass half full sort of person but look this is really unlikely to happen. If and when it does you can all send me your hats which I will proceed to eat.
We are a small country with an even smaller part of it suitable for beet. Many smaller UK growers are voluntarily giving it up without compensation.
Costs have skyrocketed since factory beet was grown.
There was a large number of small growers before ( 10 , 20 acres). That will not be viable anymore.
You might not even be viable at 100 acres.
Why anyone would pay in to buy the privilege of growing beet is beyond me.
I would suggest that ALL the machinery currently doing a bit of fodderbeet would be incapable of working in a modern commercial sugar beet situation.
It would take a brave or foolish contractor to go and buy a 6 row SP harvester which IMV would be required.
It just seems like the autumn weather has deteriorated in recent years, I would not have liked to have had a big acreage to harvest in any year since 2006. It was difficult enough to get done the small bit I had to do these recent years.
We are all now 12 years older and some of us are a bit wiser ,others it seems are not.
 
vf949 said:
Heard mention last year that Michael Hoey of Country Crest bought the land and gravel pit at Ballyburn House near Castledermot from the receivers of Morrisseys for a beet factory.
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I didn't know it was him but I had heard that some of that land was supposedly for a beet factory. I don't think all of it was for the factory because if I remember rightly I read a High Court case in relation to getting the "sitting tenant" out of the house there were two buyers.
On @nashmach 's point above, listening to some bits on the radio it struck me too that maybe they were hoping for some substantial state funding for the project and it would limit their exposure if it went belly up.
Like yourself Nash, Pat Deering was saying much the same I think in that he would like to see the sugar industry again but if the numbers don't add up then no go.

Would it be useful to merge this onto this thread regarding the same topic? http://www.forum4farming.com/forum/index.php?threads/new-sugar-beet-factory-site.8363/
 
On costs alone, if I remember beet made around €40 a ton when things folded, beet can be bought for feeding today at the same price. However, fert and sprays have rocketed since, we had a beet drill and beet sprayer at the time and was lucky to sell them on after the end of beet. Most contractors have disposed of any remaining "green" machines and are unlikely to replace them at this stage as new would possibly be the only option. There's been a lot of winters that I've been glad not to have beet growing on the land due to bad weather since, you'd always know where damage was done for a few years after. But beet was good for the land, we always had surplus for the cattle and rotation of crops is so important. Think years ago at a beet revival meeting we were suggestively asked would we pay €25k to be allowed grow 200 tons of beet contract. Can't see it happening tbh.
MF30
 
It’s hard to see a sugar beet factory back in this country. Going on the prices being quoted in the UK it just wouldn’t be viable. I kept all my beet equipment after the factory closed here and have built up a nice bit of sowing and harvesting work again with fodder beet. In saying that there’s no way I’d consider a sp harvester if the industry came back. A lot of the old beet growers around here wouldn’t go back at it. It’s a pity it went in the first place.
 
Realistically you need to grow over 100 ha to be profitable, those that don't have that kind of ground in the uk are giving up their quota. Reading the crap that came out today of can't give details, making progress etc you'd want to either be very brave or very foolish to put your hard earned into it.
 
If beet ever did come back machinery wise it definitely wouldn’t be like the old days of us all running around with single row armers, there’d be a few big SP’s and maybe some lads with twin rows doing their own. If they’re hoping to get enough lads willing to grow 100ac to come on board they might as well give up now I’d imagine. When something goes it’s very hard to get it back again let alone when the t&c’s are more stringent the second time around.
 
So going on MF30's figure and say the 100 acres which with current yields will probably do close to 35t an acre so that's 3500t of a contract. Which will cost 350k :blink:

30 acres of land would be a much better investment or indeed 60 acres of forestry.
 
Wexfman said:
The 35 tons per acre sugar beet is another fantasy beet Ireland are putting about. In fodder beet yes but not sugar beet
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Not sure I agree. Huge genetic and agronomist gains achieved in sugar beet production since Mallow closed. In fact Oak Park conducted sugar beet trials 3 or 4 years ago in anticipation of a potential revival of the industry which indicated that long-term average yields of up to 100t/ha were achieveable when modern varieties were properly managed.

Saying all this, I'm not yet convinced that the revival of the Irish sugar beet industry is a runner.
 
I see funding as the main challenge in this. Getting farmers to commit moneys. Farmers having committed money would keep them more committed to the success of the venture too.

Fundamentally, I feel that we could produce competitive beet but it won’t be as profitable on a per acre scale as before.

I’ve no involvement in the concept. It would have to be larger scale - no 10 or 15acres per grower. More like 40 ac per grower with contractors lined up to clear acres fast.

A modern plant could be very efficient compared to older factories.

Some say that it would have to compete with the high prices that fodder beet commands - I think if it were to happen that it would drop the price of fodder beet.

We have very high potential in this country for sure, but good land and good growers are required. That said, a very high proportion of the remaining tillage farmers are very professional nowadays and can do things very well.
They are successfully growing sugar beet in Denmark, our climate must be at least as suitable as the Danish one.
 
We are losing tillage area at the rate of knots and I don't see another low margin crop stopping that.
I would not like to be pulling beet this autumn winter, if the sugar industry was to set up here they would need 6 month supply, farmers and contractors would have reinvest massively. I have zero interest in funding the building and investing in all the beet equipment again just to barely break even.
€50\T @ 16% sugar and no investment in the processing or I'm out.
 
Wexfman said:
Imagine the price of con acre for beet with the dairy sector in full flight at the moment
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Why should the conacre get much higher for beet? The dairying is setting the price in a lot of places as it is.

Teagasc have a cost per acre of €690/ac for producing fodder beet. Let’s say you wanted to clear €250/ac from beet, that would be 30 x 32 (tonnes or price per tonne).
Plenty of people are growing cereals for a lot lower margin.
The beet would provide rotation too and benefit the cereals.

I’m not saying that it would work but it is always easier to dismiss the idea to avoid spending money or investigating something properly.
There’s nothing easy in this life.

If we look in from the outside at lots of businesses, we would be wondering how they keep going but they usually do.
 
I’m not looking at it from the outside I’m on a beet harvester most days since mid September and have been for the last 30 years. It costs 800 euro per acre to grow beet if you’re going to do it right. Myself and a number of lads in this area that grow beet for fodder have come up with this figure. It’s real world not fantasy numbers. Barley land is currently 200 euro per acre minimum in this area. Beet land will always command a higher price. Again this is from 30 years experience. I’d love to see a sugar industry back in this country but it needs to be a profitable crop like before if not it’s another nail in the coffin of the tillage man.
 
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