Beet Ireland

[gone]

Why should the conacre get much higher for beet? The dairying is setting the price in a lot of places as it is.

Teagasc have a cost per acre of €690/ac for producing fodder beet. Let’s say you wanted to clear €250/ac from beet, that would be 30 x 32 (tonnes or price per tonne).
Plenty of people are growing cereals for a lot lower margin.
The beet would provide rotation too and benefit the cereals.

I’m not saying that it would work but it is always easier to dismiss the idea to avoid spending money or investigating something properly.
There’s nothing easy in this life.

If we look in from the outside at lots of businesses, we would be wondering how they keep going but they usually do.

@CORK
I view it very differently and that what makes the world go round.
National average beet yields when the factories closed was between 16 and 17 ton an acre @ just under 16% sugar, given the improvements in varieties and husbandry I could see a 50% rise in yield, but no more, so approx. 25 tons an acre.
There will be haulage, so maybe 30 tons @ €6.00 €180 an acre to add to the fodder beet costs, plus the current fodder beet can be grown using the old sugar beet equipment left over from that era, but new factory would need a shed load of new equipment, adding approx. €80.
If my figures are right it brings me to €48 a ton to achieve the €250 profit margin.

 

[Wexfman]

I priced fodder beet costs at 1000 euro per acre 2 years ago. That includes 200 euro for con acre. My neighbor who works for the dept of ag priced it at 975 so I know we’re not far out. I harvested a 40 ton per acre fodder beet crop last week. On the other hand I saw 16 ton sugar beet crop in September.

 

[Ozzy Scott]

I priced fodder beet costs at 1000 euro per acre 2 years ago. That includes 200 euro for con acre. My neighbor who works for the dept of ag priced it at 975 so I know we’re not far out. I harvester a 40 ton per acre fodder beet last week. On the other hand I saw 16 ton sugar beet crops in September.

I always cost beet at 1000 an acre, dont even bother doing the sums anymore as I know this is very close. yes 30t of sugar beet I would consider on my mixed farm to be average nowadays and have gotten up to 40 but most lads forget the bad headland, the corners, the few drills by the hedge, everyone is super quoting a spot rate. Best field I had was sugar beet at 42t ac washed about 4 yrs ago, beet back in this field this term and not pulled yet looks to me to be around 30. I started growing beet about 10-12 yrs ago and my first crop was in this field of Ocean, was wrapped in Sucira boxes, and done 23t per ac, back at the time the merchant said this was quite a good yield. Sugar beet is probably gaining around 2% yield year on year

 

[Cork]

@CORK
I view it very differently and that what makes the world go round.
National average beet yields when the factories closed was between 16 and 17 ton an acre @ just under 16% sugar, given the improvements in varieties and husbandry I could see a 50% rise in yield, but no more, so approx. 25 tons an acre.
There will be haulage, so maybe 30 tons @ €6.00 €180 an acre to add to the fodder beet costs, plus the current fodder beet can be grown using the old sugar beet equipment left over from that era, but new factory would need a shed load of new equipment, adding approx. €80.
If my figures are right it brings me to €48 a ton to achieve the €250 profit margin.

I priced fodder beet costs at 1000 euro per acre 2 years ago. That includes 200 euro for con acre. My neighbor who works for the dept of ag priced it at 975 so I know we’re not far out. I harvester a 40 ton per acre fodder beet last week. On the other hand I saw 16 ton sugar beet crops in September.

The Teagasc costings have a figure in for transport of fodder beet (not sure about it though as it says €6/tonne and a cost of €100/Ha?). Yes, the transport would be a cost worth serious consideration.

In terms of yields, I have heard it said that the National average beet yields didn't take into account all the surplus that went for fodder? I know growers who were at the 30tn/acre level reliably (I saw one hit 50-60tn/acre with fodder beet in 2006) Like everything, there is a huge variation in the calibre of grower and land but I think 25tn/ac is underestimating the potential of modern crops. Now, whether enough of good land and good growers could be sourced to supply a factory is certainly a worry.

With regard to equipment costings, the Teagasc costings have contractor rates in for every operation so its hardly a cost based completely on old machinery that has no depreciation or payments on it (with the exception of planter and harvester to some degree).

As mentioned, the cereals or beans etc that are currently being grown where beet could be grown are carrying the same conacre cost that the beet would have to contend with.

 

[Danielk]

The Teagasc costings have a figure in for transport of fodder beet (not sure about it though as it says €6/tonne and a cost of €100/Ha?). Yes, the transport would be a cost worth serious consideration.

In terms of yields, I have heard it said that the National average beet yields didn't take into account all the surplus that went for fodder? I know growers who were at the 30tn/acre level reliably (I saw one hit 50-60tn/acre with fodder beet in 2006) Like everything, there is a huge variation in the calibre of grower and land but I think 25tn/ac is underestimating the potential of modern crops. Now, whether enough of good land and good growers could be sourced to supply a factory is certainly a worry.

With regard to equipment costings, the Teagasc costings have contractor rates in for every operation so its hardly a cost based completely on old machinery that has no depreciation or payments on it (with the exception of planter and harvester to some degree).

As mentioned, the cereals or beans etc that are currently being grown where beet could be grown are carrying the same conacre cost that the beet would have to contend with.

50-60t/ac?? Really where did it all grow. Find it hard to see that really. Even in a good consistent field of fodder beet I be thinking 40-45 be the max really.

As for the sugar factory I think I would rather not have it back. Getting on good with the fodder beet here so unless they really give a good price I rather not see it as all the surplus beet will pull the price of very well back and can’t see there being much money out of it.

 

[Cork]

50-60t/ac?? Really where did it all grow. Find it hard to see that really. Even in a good consistent field of fodder beet I be thinking 40-45 be the max really.

As for the sugar factory I think I would rather not have it back. Getting on good with the fodder beet here so unless they really give a good price I rather not see it as all the surplus beet will pull the price of very well back and can’t see there being much money out of it.

Granted it did not include headlands but they were trial plots measuring about 5-6 acres each. All over a weighbridge. Medium DM fodder beet. very good long term tillage ground.

 

[Danielk]

I priced fodder beet costs at 1000 euro per acre 2 years ago. That includes 200 euro for con acre. My neighbor who works for the dept of ag priced it at 975 so I know we’re not far out. I harvested a 40 ton per acre fodder beet crop last week. On the other hand I saw 16 ton sugar beet crop in September.

Do you have a breakdown of the costs roughly. I don’t use the money for con acre. I use teagasc contract figures for all the work even though I do most of it myself. My figure be a lot less than yours so interested so see

 

[Danielk]

Granted it did not include headlands but they were trial plots measuring about 5-6 acres each. All over a weighbridge. Medium DM fodder beet. very goo long term tillage ground.

That would be serious beet

 

[Cork]

That would be serious beet

It was! I was pulling one of the trailers!

 

[Blackwater boy]

From talking to growers the average fodder beet yield is around 35T and sugar beet 28/30 t, no more. The odd exceptional field is higher with some of the very good growers but the 2 figures above are what I hear on a daily/ weekly basis. Some claim more and I know deep down its not there.

 

[Ozzy Scott]

From talking to growers the average fodder beet yield is around 35T and sugar beet 28/30 t, no more. The odd exceptional field is higher with some of the very good growers but the 2 figures above are what I hear on a daily/ weekly basis. Some claim more and I know deep down its not there.

I agree with your yeilds, mine are abit higher due to being in a mixed farming and lots of organic nutrient about. Pointless talking about yeilds with DM. Sugar beet doing 30t ac is same as fodder doing 40 in many cases. I grew haydn at 27% dm last year and magnum is 18%. 30 of haydn is 45 magnum.

im sorry, but to me there is something else.

 

[bagenal]

Do they costs ye quote include washing the beet before going to the factory? I gather the factory will only take in washed beet, I presume to save on disposal of tare and there not being a large water supply on the site.
The haulage cost mentioned of €6/tonne would only cover a certain distance, outside that this cost would increase.

 

[Wexfman]

From talking to growers the average fodder beet yield is around 35T and sugar beet 28/30 t, no more. The odd exceptional field is higher with some of the very good growers but the 2 figures above are what I hear on a daily/ weekly basis. Some claim more and I know deep down its not there.

This is in line with what I’m seeing harvesting for hire every day. The problem is that the yields will be way down when you harvest early. I’ve seen lads try to convince themselves about yields... saying there’s 2-3 tons more on the trailers than there actually is even though they’re my trailers lol. I haven’t seen a 30 ton crop of sugar beet yet this year but close to it.

 

[Wexfman]

Do you have a breakdown of the costs roughly. I don’t use the money for con acre. I use teagasc contract figures for all the work even though I do most of it myself. My figure be a lot less than yours so interested so see

I’ll go through it tomorrow it’s written down here somewhere. Mostly contractor charges but I included everything slug pellets etc

 

[Wexfman]

It’s great that we’re having this discussion all the same. Good to hear all the different views.

 

[gone]

The Teagasc costings have a figure in for transport of fodder beet (not sure about it though as it says €6/tonne and a cost of €100/Ha?). Yes, the transport would be a cost worth serious consideration.

In terms of yields, I have heard it said that the National average beet yields didn't take into account all the surplus that went for fodder? I know growers who were at the 30tn/acre level reliably (I saw one hit 50-60tn/acre with fodder beet in 2006) Like everything, there is a huge variation in the calibre of grower and land but I think 25tn/ac is underestimating the potential of modern crops. Now, whether enough of good land and good growers could be sourced to supply a factory is certainly a worry.

With regard to equipment costings, the Teagasc costings have contractor rates in for every operation so its hardly a cost based completely on old machinery that has no depreciation or payments on it (with the exception of planter and harvester to some degree).

As mentioned, the cereals or beans etc that are currently being grown where beet could be grown are carrying the same conacre cost that the beet would have to contend with.

Teagasc figure only is for drawing away from beet puller.
I don't know of any new beet equipment bought in this area since the factory closed and there would need to be massive investment if one was to reopen.
Yield really depends on what way tares were going to work, but if similar to when the industry closed, 25 ton national average is very ambitious.

 

[Blackwater boy]

I agree with your yeilds, mine are abit higher due to being in a mixed farming and lots of organic nutrient about. Pointless talking about yeilds with DM. Sugar beet doing 30t ac is same as fodder doing 40 in many cases. I grew haydn at 27% dm last year and magnum is 18%. 30 of haydn is 45 magnum.

se.

Unfortunately far too many buying beet don't understand nor want to understand DM.

 

[Danielk]

I’ll go through it tomorrow it’s written down here somewhere. Mostly contractor charges but I included everything slug pellets etc

I will try get to show mine to. Just to see if I am missing anything

 

[Barrowsider]

It would be interesting to get a definitive sugar beet yield figure for this country. Our magnum FB yielded extremely well this year, we threw the kitchen sink at it, but we don't add up diet feeder weights so I wouldn't dare put a figure on it. Obviously sugar beet yields less. But considering 100 t/ha is not such a big deal in the U.K. anymore, if we cannot hit a national average yield of at least 30 t/ac we should forget about resurrecting the sugar industry.

 

[CCS]

Beet Ireland should be applauded for what they have done. This is a great news story for the tillage sector. If it was another sector like dairy the red carpet would be put out for them. Most of the directors of the company are tillage farmers and have put in tremendous amount of work to get it to where they are now. They should be getting the full support from the whole sector. They want the growers to invest so they will always have a say and prevent the industry from closing in the future. This way the growers are shareholders and will get a share of the profits. They have other options as well but the last thing we want is another Liam Carroll majority shareholder who could close the whole industry with a click of his fingers. Teagascs eprofit monitor shows an average yield of 82t/ha for beet for their top 1/3 growers in 2016 and a net margin double that of the second most profitable crop wheat. Just look at this weeks farmers weekly and read Robert Law his best crop for 2017. There are growers in the UK achieving up to 120t/ha this year, 100t/ha is very common. We're the highest yielding country in the world for cereals, pulses and rapeseed and no reason why we can't with beet. The crop agronomy and machinery techniques have changed hugely since it closed. Drilling as early as possible in March and leaving crop as late as you dare in the autumn. The Beet Ireland group are great professionals. Farmers will be amazed with the package that they have prepared. Future growers don't need to worry about machinery it's not an issue. I know a couple of the people involved with this project and all I can say is they're over subscribed with growers jumping at the chance to grow a profitable break crop.I wish them all the best and I hope it's a great success.

 

[Blackwater boy]

Beet Ireland should be applauded for what they have done. This is a great news story for the tillage sector. If it was another sector like dairy the red carpet would be put out for them. Most of the directors of the company are tillage farmers and have put in tremendous amount of work to get it to where they are now. They should be getting the full support from the whole sector. They want the growers to invest so they will always have a say and prevent the industry from closing in the future. This way the growers are shareholders and will get a share of the profits. They have other options as well but the last thing we want is another Liam Carroll majority shareholder who could close the whole industry with a click of his fingers. Teagascs eprofit monitor shows an average yield of 82t/ha for beet for their top 1/3 growers in 2016 and a net margin double that of the second most profitable crop wheat. Just look at this weeks farmers weekly and read Robert Law his best crop for 2017. There are growers in the UK achieving up to 120t/ha this year, 100t/ha is very common. We're the highest yielding country in the world for cereals, pulses and rapeseed and no reason why we can't with beet. The crop agronomy and machinery techniques have changed hugely since it closed. Drilling as early as possible in March and leaving crop as late as you dare in the autumn. The Beet Ireland group are great professionals. Farmers will be amazed with the package that they have prepared. Future growers don't need to worry about machinery it's not an issue. I know a couple of the people involved with this project and all I can say is they're over subscribed with growers jumping at the chance to grow a profitable break crop.I wish them all the best and I hope it's a great success.

Fair point. What is the package as I have not seen it nor has anybody mentioned it here?

 

[Barrowsider]

Beet Ireland should be applauded for what they have done. This is a great news story for the tillage sector. If it was another sector like dairy the red carpet would be put out for them. Most of the directors of the company are tillage farmers and have put in tremendous amount of work to get it to where they are now. They should be getting the full support from the whole sector. They want the growers to invest so they will always have a say and prevent the industry from closing in the future. This way the growers are shareholders and will get a share of the profits. They have other options as well but the last thing we want is another Liam Carroll majority shareholder who could close the whole industry with a click of his fingers. Teagascs eprofit monitor shows an average yield of 82t/ha for beet for their top 1/3 growers in 2016 and a net margin double that of the second most profitable crop wheat. Just look at this weeks farmers weekly and read Robert Law his best crop for 2017. There are growers in the UK achieving up to 120t/ha this year, 100t/ha is very common. We're the highest yielding country in the world for cereals, pulses and rapeseed and no reason why we can't with beet. The crop agronomy and machinery techniques have changed hugely since it closed. Drilling as early as possible in March and leaving crop as late as you dare in the autumn. The Beet Ireland group are great professionals. Farmers will be amazed with the package that they have prepared. Future growers don't need to worry about machinery it's not an issue. I know a couple of the people involved with this project and all I can say is they're over subscribed with growers jumping at the chance to grow a profitable break crop.I wish them all the best and I hope it's a great success.

I agree, the beet Ireland group should be commended for their work so far. But it is not as straightforward as you make out, if it were the industry would be up and running by now given the amount of talking shops that have taken place on the topic over the last 5+ years. As a result, this proposal is not beyond questioning or criticism and all opinions, for or against should be listened to as part of a healthy discussion likethe one we are having here.

 

[jay gatsby]

Like all have said I'd love to see it back. On the point of being hard to get machinery bought to service the industry I couldn't go along with that.

If combines are being bought for over a quarter of a million quid with barley at €130 A ton and silage harvesters bought at the same money and more to cut silage at €100 an acre I can't see beer harvesters being a step too far. In fact I'd imagine there would be waiting lists to get them

 

[Wexfman]

Like all have said I'd love to see it back. On the point of being hard to get machinery bought to service the industry I couldn't go along with that.

If combines are being bought for over a quarter of a million quid with barley at €130 A ton and silage harvesters bought at the same money and more to cut silage at €100 an acre I can't see beer harvesters being a step too far. In fact I'd imagine there would be waiting lists to get them

It would defy common sense but you’re probably right.

 

[jay gatsby]

It would defy common sense but you’re probably right.

Oh I'm not saying it's sensible at all. But... sense and heavy metal don't seem to come into it. All the points @gone and others mentioned earlier are correct I'm sure but that won't stop lads ringing the finance companies phones off the hook pricing new machines.

If this project got off the ground I would venture that the fleet of machines currently in the country with some tlc and a good dose of hardship would feed the factory for probably 3 years till it's up and running and then lads could venture into newer and more specialist gear. But that won't happen either, lads will be pricing 6 row harvesters parked in ditches in holland.

In the grand scheme of things beet doesn't require the reinvention of the wheel machinery wise either. The tractors are there now to pull any number of twin row harvesters, the tillage machinery is there, drills are not that complex. Trailers and haulage capacity have moved on hugely since the days of the old campaigns. Twould be relatively straightforward in my eyes to get the harvesting capacity up and as I said I could see plenty of volunteers there to make that investment.