Hydraulic flow control solenoid.

[diesel power]

Evening all. While plugging in the hyd pipes for the straw chopper I put them on back to front so the oil flow was backwards going into the chopper. Made no odds or so I thought until I went to slow down the floor speed and nothing happened. It's turning away fine just at full wack. It's a solenoid controlled valve that slows the floor chain with a potentiometer in the control box in the cab to speed up or slow the rate a bale is shoved through the machine. I opened up the valve block or whatever it's called to see if anything was bent or broken but I can't see anything wrong at all. I'm out of ideas at this point and I'm wondering if I should just get rid of the solenoid job and put in a manual speed valve. I've a piccy of the one in question on the phone I'll post up here in a minute and see what ye think. I would prefer to keep the leccy job as it's handy to adjust but a manual one won't be the end of the world. Hoping someone might know whats wrong. Tia lads.

 

[diesel power]

The valve or solenoid in question

 

[MF30]

Take out the hydraulic filter on the blower and see if it's still intact. Possibly a piece has been blown out of it due to flow reversal and has jammed in part of the circuit, I've seen this before. Is the solenoid moving when operated by the joystick?

 

[diesel power]

I don't think it has a filter MF. I spent a good bit of time at it this evening tracing pipes and figuring out the oil flow through the various solenoids. There's a bank of solenoids and the oil is pumped in one end and returns to the tractor from the other end. I had that cast iron lump in the above pic off and dismantled it and all that it has inside are a relief valve and a small valve over that that the solenoid pushes on to slow the oil flow. Looking into the ports I could see that valve moving down as I turned up the floor speed so It's working. I'm wondering if the reversed oil flow has cracked something internally or blown out a gallery between oil ports. I'll get better pics of the unit tomorrow including of it apart to see if anyone can spot something I've missed.

 

[Big Vern]

Evening all. While plugging in the hyd pipes for the straw chopper I put them on back to front so the oil flow was backwards going into the chopper. Made no odds or so I thought until I went to slow down the floor speed and nothing happened. It's turning away fine just at full wack. It's a solenoid controlled valve that slows the floor chain with a potentiometer in the control box in the cab to speed up or slow the rate a bale is shoved through the machine. I opened up the valve block or whatever it's called to see if anything was bent or broken but I can't see anything wrong at all. I'm out of ideas at this point and I'm wondering if I should just get rid of the solenoid job and put in a manual speed valve. I've a piccy of the one in question on the phone I'll post up here in a minute and see what ye think. I would prefer to keep the leccy job as it's handy to adjust but a manual one won't be the end of the world. Hoping someone might know whats wrong. Tia lads.

Bit late in he day I know, but we put a red cable tie rond "pumping " pipe on our straw blower, that way there's no excuse to cause the problem such as yours, ( we've had that t shirt ,,,,, )

 

[diesel power]

Bit late in he day I know, but we put a red cable tie rond "pumping " pipe on our straw blower, that way there's no excuse to cause the problem such as yours, ( we've had that t shirt ,,,,, )

I've a cable tie and an X cut into the pressure side coupling now Vern. Bit late in the day but I won't be making that mistake again. Why manufactures can't mark the pressure side on machines I don't know.

 

[aidank]

I've a cable tie and an X cut into the pressure side coupling now Vern. Bit late in the day but I won't be making that mistake again. Why manufactures can't mark the pressure side on machines I don't know.

It is marked actually, that valve you posted has an A and a B marked on it, A is feed and B is return is the international language of flow! and it also has flow controller symbol on it.

When you took it apart and you feed it with electric power, can you see the stopping mechanism going in and out

 

[Big Vern]

I've a cable tie and an X cut into the pressure side coupling now Vern. Bit late in the day but I won't be making that mistake again. Why manufactures can't mark the pressure side on machines I don't know.

Because as per usual the people who make n design all these things don't use them in the real world,,,,

We do the same wth the hydraulic tail gates on all our tipping trailers, ALL OUR TAILERS are plumbed in the same way,,,, all the same way ,,, all the time,,,, all the tip levers are marked with tape,,,, saves expensive spill ages when backing on to the spud grader tipping spuds and know how it is when your a bit tired or you've some hired help

 

[diesel power]

It is marked actually, that valve you posted has an A and a B marked on it, A is feed and B is return is the international language of flow! and it also has flow controller symbol on it.

When you took it apart and you feed it with electric power, can you see the stopping mechanism going in and out

The valve is marked alright. It was the 2 hyd pipes into the tractor I meant when I said the manufactures could do with marking the pressure line. When I had it off the machine earlier I could see the mechanism going in and out as I twisted the potentiometer up and down so the leccy side of things are working and from what I can see the mechanical side is working yet the floor wont slow down. Something must be missing or dislodged inside that I can't see.

 

[marco]

Mchale here has one way valve on the pipe.

 

[MF30]

Bit late in he day I know, but we put a red cable tie rond "pumping " pipe on our straw blower, that way there's no excuse to cause the problem such as yours, ( we've had that t shirt ,,,,, )

On mine I just fitted a female quick release coupling on the return hose and have a male fitting on the backend of the tractor to dump the oil straight in without having to run the oil back through the spools. Can't possibly go wrong then. Ideally you should power an implement from one bank of spools and return it through another bank with the tipping lever up in the first one and down in the second bank. This is the path of least resistance and easiest on the tractor.

 

[Win]

The valve or solenoid in question
View attachment 63242

That diagram is slightly different to the manual flow controls, port B is to the motor is it?

You have reverse on the bed chain do you?

Edit; Thinking about it you probably won't be able to tell which port is B on the manifold that it bolts to. Reversing the flow shouldn't affect the solenoid anyway, more likely done something to the relief type valve you said about as that's where the oil would be going through in the other direction.
More pics needed.

 

[diesel power]

I didn't get time today to get a few better pictures lads. Hopefully tomorrow I'll get a chance at some point :Thumbp2:

 

[scoffcruddle]

Hard to tell from your pic is it a cetop valve?

 

[diesel power]

I got a few pics this evening. The valve in question is on the left of the picture below.

The only moving parts this solenoid valve has. The bit on the right is a relief valve and the bit with the spring on it on the left of the pic is what the solenoid gradually pushes down the more I turn up the potentiometer and it is moving. I checked that. y n

 

[MF30]

The solenoid block is pretty good steel whereas the aluminium block behind it would be more likely to have a crack if that's what it is. That valve is not familiar to me but looks fine. Might be no harm to ask a hydraulic specialist, the valve is in free flow and won't restrict flow so it appears this may be the issue. With high engine revs does the moving floor make any effort to slow down?

 

[Win]

I got a few pics this evening. The valve in question is on the left of the picture below.
View attachment 63288 View attachment 63289
The only moving parts this solenoid valve has. The bit on the right is a relief valve and the bit with the spring on it on the left of the pic is what the solenoid gradually pushes down the more I turn up the potentiometer and it is moving. I checked that. View attachment 63291 yView attachment 63291 View attachment 63292 nView attachment 63290

I'm probably being thick but you reckon the solenoid pushes on the piston with the spring? But the longer piece can't go in from the coil end cause its larger on the end, or have you taken it out from the opposite end to the coil?

 

[diesel power]

I'm probably being thick but you reckon the solenoid pushes on the piston with the spring? But the longer piece can't go in from the coil end cause its larger on the end, or have you taken it out from the opposite end to the coil?

Your correct win. The bigger piece goes up through the bottom of that cast iron block and the bit with the spring goes in the top. I'm at a loss as to what could be wrong at this stage. I had that cast block off the aluminium block to check for cracks or a hole blown through from one oil port to another but everything looks perfect. Whether there's something got blown out thats supposed to be between those 2 pistons and went into the backend of the tractor or what I have no idea.

 

[Win]

Your correct win. The bigger piece goes up through the bottom of that cast iron block and the bit with the spring goes in the top. I'm at a loss as to what could be wrong at this stage. I had that cast block off the aluminium block to check for cracks or a hole blown through from one oil port to another but everything looks perfect. Whether there's something got blown out thats supposed to be between those 2 pistons and went into the backend of the tractor or what I have no idea.

Is the solenoid fully extended when the floor is at maximum speed?

 

[AYF]

Any chance that the reliefe valve has been blown closed and stuck. So oil is forcing through rather than through the reliefe?

 

[Arthur]

Can you swap the coil for a different one, while it is working and appearing to do the right thing it may be behaving differently when there is oil pressure in the valve block.

 

[diesel power]

All good questions lads and I don't know is the answer to them. @Win in theory the floor speed should be at max when the solenoid pushes that top piston fully down but in reality the floor is going at full speed even with the solenoid power disconnected.
There's a fairly stiff spring pushing on the relief valve AYF and it all seems to move nice and free.
I've tried a couple of different coils to no avail and tried the coil on the solenoid in question in another position and it's working perfect.

 

[AYF]

All good questions lads and I don't know is the answer to them. @Win in theory the floor speed should be at max when the solenoid pushes that top piston fully down but in reality the floor is going at full speed even with the solenoid power disconnected.
There's a fairly stiff spring pushing on the relief valve AYF and it all seems to move nice and free.
I've tried a couple of different coils to no avail and tried the coil on the solenoid in question in another position and it's working perfect.

Is it a new to you blower?

 

[scoffcruddle]

It's a proportional cetop,basically your dial in the cab sets the position of the plunger.

If you remove the coil you should be able to mimic the position of the plunger by pushing the plunger from beneath,trouble is you need another stem to do this as the oil leaks out.

 

[Win]

All good questions lads and I don't know is the answer to them. @Win in theory the floor speed should be at max when the solenoid pushes that top piston fully down but in reality the floor is going at full speed even with the solenoid power disconnected.
There's a fairly stiff spring pushing on the relief valve AYF and it all seems to move nice and free.
I've tried a couple of different coils to no avail and tried the coil on the solenoid in question in another position and it's working perfect.

I take it the spring on the piston is used to move the valve to minimum flow and retract the solenoid? Does that black looking washer half way down the valve stop the valve going on through the valve body?