Crops
Well-Known Member
I think the whole article is specific to organic production?
Organic farming
- Thread starter The Stig
- Start date
There is no link to the original report or its authors - in any case the trends cited are the same for non-organic production over the past 2 years , particularly in the livestock sector. It might be linked to the same countries mentioned attempts to water down the EU's targets on pesticide reductions by 2030, some serious lobbying going on that front atm, but who knows??
paddysdream
Well-Known Member
Not sure if we both are looking at the same article but my take from it is that ;
Policy makers are starting to realise that food security is important for the EU and total reliance on outside imports is not an ideal scenario.I presume they envisaged a Europe where we could farm to the highest green standard and export the messy job of actual food production to Brazil,USA ,Russia, Ukraine etc etc.
People are not prepared to pay over and above for their staple dietary items on a regular basis despite what they might say in an opinion poll.The general populace want cheap food .Whether thats a good thing or not is a moot point really.An organic steak with handpicked Irish onions and free range mushrooms is grand perhaps today as the BISS rolls in but Larrys prime mince,5 euro Thai chickens and lumps of the best stewing beef and hairy bacon are the staples.
They are more or less admitting that ,on top of the supports available for conventional agriculture,even the rather generous organic payments are not really making the organic route an attractive proposition for many.
Dilemma here is; did I sign up for organics under the last well funded scheme (reality based EU policy) or will they double down and make it more attractive (Green policy) and I will have to engineer an escape route before I am marked and ineligible for any newer better scheme ?
Said long time ago anyone who enters organics with any intention of trying to sell organic,farm organic etc etc is wasting their time.Treat it as a well funded REPS 5 ,draw the money and see whats what in 5 years time.
Policy makers are starting to realise that food security is important for the EU and total reliance on outside imports is not an ideal scenario.I presume they envisaged a Europe where we could farm to the highest green standard and export the messy job of actual food production to Brazil,USA ,Russia, Ukraine etc etc.
People are not prepared to pay over and above for their staple dietary items on a regular basis despite what they might say in an opinion poll.The general populace want cheap food .Whether thats a good thing or not is a moot point really.An organic steak with handpicked Irish onions and free range mushrooms is grand perhaps today as the BISS rolls in but Larrys prime mince,5 euro Thai chickens and lumps of the best stewing beef and hairy bacon are the staples.
They are more or less admitting that ,on top of the supports available for conventional agriculture,even the rather generous organic payments are not really making the organic route an attractive proposition for many.
Dilemma here is; did I sign up for organics under the last well funded scheme (reality based EU policy) or will they double down and make it more attractive (Green policy) and I will have to engineer an escape route before I am marked and ineligible for any newer better scheme ?
Said long time ago anyone who enters organics with any intention of trying to sell organic,farm organic etc etc is wasting their time.Treat it as a well funded REPS 5 ,draw the money and see whats what in 5 years time.
EU exported a record amount of food last year so i think the "Food security" issue is a bit of a red herring, especially put next to the 180 million tonnes of wasted food yearly across the block and ongoing pressure on most agri commodity prices. In any case alot of the food inflation issues are down to things like the cost of transport, storage etc. rather than lack of actual food production. Not sure a race to the bottom on food and farming standards with the likes of the US would benefit the average farmer here anyways in terms of farm gate prices, maintaining averge family farms etc. US also has its own problems in terms of shrinking farmer numbers and a US DA subsidy similar in scale to the CAP(per farm) to prevent worse. Also that article mentioned that there is still a near 3 million tonne of organic imports coming into the EU yearly, so the sector isn't exactly dead yet....
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Crops
Well-Known Member
I don’t see how the EU is in a race to the bottom in terms of food & farming practices, the EU has probably the most stringent standards for conventional farming.
To me, I see little logic in the EU going down a path of less efficient/less productive organic farming to keep farm incomes high whilst the real world continues to become more efficient and it’s cheaper produce ends up being imported into the EU.
Let organic farmers work away, I’ve no problem with that, if the market wants it then it will pay for it. However, I don’t see the sense in trying to increase organic production by supporting the market and/or just loading on more subsidies to support something that is largely an ideology.
Farming doesn’t have to be a binary Conventional or Organic thing. Conventional farmers can be just as caring for biodiversity, soils etc as the most caring Organic farmer whilst making more efficient use of an acre of land/litre of diesel.
I didn't say the EU was in a race to the bottom, I was referring to a previous poster suggesting that is the way for Irish farming to go. Neither am I a fundamentalist when it comes to organic V non-organic in that i also agree that many conventional farmers are doing their bit in this area in terms of farming models that show more appreciation for soil health, biodiversity, water quality etc.
I could never understand the Irish/Dutch argument of the world needing more food produced, it doesn’t. There’s enough food being produced to easily feed 10billion people. At least 30% of that rots. There was a lecturer in UCC that came out with those figures before the dairy expansion..he wasn’t heard from on RTE again.
It’s mostly a ‘narrative’ to suit whatever agenda is popular on the day.
A good example is the setaside in France alone. Even in a very poor year that setaside would produce more than the entire Irish harvest, and it would be human grade milling wheat.
Likewise the ethanol argument. If it wasn’t for the ethanol/biodiesel plants consuming the ‘excess’ grains the world would be awash with poor quality grains. A digester saved me from a catastrophic maize harvest last year. Something I won’t forget.
I fear that Ireland has missed the boat on organic. No markets, or a way to market, for organic produce. Grow it and it’ll be grand isn’t showing much joined up thinking. Organic producers are suffering conventional prices with quite a while here in France. The producers that changed over 20yrs ago are made…15-20yr production contracts that are index linked.
There’s no ‘grant’ or ‘organic’ payments here, you enter into organic at your own risk. Saying that, I know an organic dairy farmer producing milk for the same price as my conventional and he won’t change…says that he wouldn’t change anything by going conventional. In fairness the only difference between organic and conventional livestock is a doubling of medicine withdrawal times. Organic grain production isn’t quite that easy.
Imho, the area aid, tams, acres etc etc etc need to be abolished and stipulate that ALL imports into the EU must be produced under the same stringent regulations that we have to abide by. I’d happily drop my area aid for that.
I'm not at the Biofarm conference but in the presentation from John Sweeney he showed slides of a book that an Taisce has put together of Putin's history of Russia organic farming in Ireland. For every primary school in the state.
Picture of slide of the cover from the event.
Picture of slide of the cover from the event.
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Crops
Well-Known Member
That’s some bollixing.I'm not at the Biofarm conference but in the presentation from John Sweeney he showed slides of a book that an Taisce has put together a book ofPutin's history of Russiaorganic farming in Ireland. For every primary school in the state.
Picture of slide of the cover from the event.
It’ll be interesting to see if my kids get a copy at school. Most teachers that I’ve seen would love the whole organic/left wing type ideas.
I’ll write a nice letter to an taisce if they do receive it. They’ll probably put me on a watch list.
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Crops
Well-Known Member
You’ve just revved me up even more!!!Signed.
Frans Timmermans.
Years ago my brother joined An Taisce to see what they were at ,and at the time he looked the part. Long hair and beard and slightly grunge look . They did not realise he was an undercover 200 units N to the acre wheat grower with a chemical shopping list that included Captafol and many other since banned chemicals .I'm not at the Biofarm conference but in the presentation from John Sweeney he showed slides of a book that an Taisce has put together ofPutin's history of Russiaorganic farming in Ireland. For every primary school in the state.
Picture of slide of the cover from the event.
Seedsower
Well-Known Member
gone
Well-Known Member
A good few years ago I met your brother in Carlow town, he was telling me about his undercover actions and the reactions, I have rarely laughed so much. His description of the shock and horror was hilarious.
I was more worried that he would be turned and he would bring home an earth mother and start homeschooling the children.
gone
Well-Known Member
Farmer shares the tale of the turkey from farm to plate - Agriland.ie
Turkey farmer, Fiona Curran said it is 'great' to say that everything on her family’s plates this Christmas will have come from the farm
www.agriland.ie
Crops
Well-Known Member
Ozzy Scott
Well-Known Member
Biological farming is along way away, from organic farming.
Crops
Well-Known Member
Probably so but the article was from an organic magazine so I said I’d put it here.
Crops
Well-Known Member
A view that I agree with:
www.scienceforsustainableagriculture.com
PearsallLittle | SSA
Land use: OF&G claims for organic farming benefits don't stack up
I found it lacking in a number of areas - first of all few folks in organics are putting forward the idea of 100% organic production or having a signficant % overnight. Secondly I would like to have seen more about proven tech from organics incorporated into conventional farming to address very real and relevant issues for future food production such as stemming soil degradation(recent report out shows that nearly 70% of conventional farmland in the EU is suffering varying levels of degradation, including from excessive use of chem fert and pesticides https://environment.ec.europa.eu/topics/soil-and-land_en), protection of crop polllinators or using integrated Pest management to lessen issues with Pesticide resistant crop pests and address growing issues with antibiotic resistance associated with intensive livestock systems. Also the old tropes "feeding the poor" and protecting the likes of rainforests cannot be addressed if elephants in the room like food waste, the biofuel scam etc. are ignored in the discussion, which the author made no reference to despite them being far bigger issues in terms of displacing land from food production or space for nature.A view that I agree with:
PearsallLittle | SSA
Land use: OF&G claims for organic farming benefits don't stack up
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Blizzard95
Well-Known Member
Hi,
Im considering do a small bit of reseeding.
Has any one used any of these wholecrop mix's, What did you think of them?
Undersown with red clover?
www.fruithillfarm.com
Really im interested in seeing could they be a substitute for meal?
Looking into it at the minute, so any advice would be appreciated.
Sheep is what the bales would be fed to.
Im considering do a small bit of reseeding.
Has any one used any of these wholecrop mix's, What did you think of them?
Undersown with red clover?
Whole Crop Silage
Variety rich whole crop silage with a mix of clovers. Useful as a main silage crop and a catchcrop. Abundant flowering and very good suppression of weeds in comparison with mono-cultures. 100% Organic. 35% oats, 30% triticale, 11% peas, 16% ryegrass, 5% Egyptian clover and 3% Persian Clover...
www.fruithillfarm.com
Really im interested in seeing could they be a substitute for meal?
Looking into it at the minute, so any advice would be appreciated.
Sheep is what the bales would be fed to.
That’s principally a cereal mix with a tiny bit of clover. Will result in a very unpalatable forage that’ll be around 12-14% protein, very high in fibre, and lowish energy.Hi,
Im considering do a small bit of reseeding.
Has any one used any of these wholecrop mix's, What did you think of them?
Undersown with red clover?
Whole Crop Silage
Variety rich whole crop silage with a mix of clovers. Useful as a main silage crop and a catchcrop. Abundant flowering and very good suppression of weeds in comparison with mono-cultures. 100% Organic. 35% oats, 30% triticale, 11% peas, 16% ryegrass, 5% Egyptian clover and 3% Persian Clover...
Really im interested in seeing could they be a substitute for meal?
Looking into it at the minute, so any advice would be appreciated.
Sheep is what the bales would be fed to.
I know nothing about sheep..maybe that’s that type of feed you’re after?