Fertilizer Price Tracker

no name said:
There's probably a % or 2 gone towards bad debts I'd imagine. Unfortunately we all have to chip into that fund whether we like it or not
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Bad debts with a good merchant are not worth talking about. That's from the mouth of my 2 merchants, which is great to hear, as I would not enjoy paying other people bills, with an extra % on mine. Unfortunately in my business, bad debts and fraud, cost me money on every animal I buy.
 
Bog Man said:
The revenue took an interest in the rebates given to Agricultural merchants by fertilizer companies. It centered on the fertilizer being bought in one tax year and rebated in the next year. The sum involved for the merchant was substantial and the rebate came at a time he was paying for grain. The rebate was based on brand loyalty and tonnage. The CSO have figures for fertilizer costs. I thought Agricultural merchanting had a margin of 3% after costs . A good rebate with a good customer base can be a nice earner for organizing delivery and a bit of paperwork.
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I’d expect any fertilizer cost price would be ex yard sellers yard , easily factor in €8-10/tn for delivering 2tn to Jimmy down the narrow lane.

I don’t sell fertilizer but deal with many who do. It’s nothing to write home about in terms of margin. It’s easy to have fertilizer bought at x and the market moves against you by €10-20/tn or visa versa. A few damaged bags in the yard etc.
 
CORK said:
I’d expect any fertilizer cost price would be ex yard sellers yard , easily factor in €8-10/tn for delivering 2tn to Jimmy down the narrow lane.

I don’t sell fertilizer but deal with many who do. It’s nothing to write home about in terms of margin. It’s easy to have fertilizer bought at x and the market moves against you by €10-20/tn or visa versa. A few damaged bags in the yard etc.
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Ah the usual “ I’ve only the transport out of it” is, in the vast majority of cases, bullcrap.

For example, back in June I bought a substantial amount of 34.4%N for €176.5/t. As of yesterday I stand to make a tidy sum by trading it on right now. Most merchants will buy in the off season and retail it at peak demand time with extremely lucrative margins.

The problem is, in Ireland anyhow, there’s no facility for the farmers to buy forward...the merchants keep that little number for themselves.
 
Sheebadog said:
The problem is, in Ireland anyhow, there’s no facility for the farmers to buy forward...the merchants keep that little number for themselves.
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I bought over half of our 2021 N requirements last July at what now looks like a good price. Bought through an independent merchant which whom we do a fair bit of business.
 
Barrowsider said:
I bought over half of our 2021 N requirements last July at what now looks like a good price. Bought through an independent merchant which whom we do a fair bit of business.
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You bought it though (obvs good business), assume you put cash down close on 12months in advance. I cant see why a futures market cant be ran for fertiliser similar to grain. In the past when my business was different, I would regularly had grain contracted up to 24 months, and all I would have put down is the price of the text message. Margins in grain are small, in fertiliser they are massive
 
I always found the only day you could drive a good price on fertiliser was when a merchant was looking to buy credit off you and happy to lay off the first 20% of their order for cost.

Thankfully the small amount of fert I use nowadays, the price makes little odds in grand scheme of things
 
To buy last august or September meant having to pay for it there any then and possibly take delivery also. Some of ye might be strong financially to be able to do this but in my case I would not have a hope, often borrowing money does not make it worthwhile unless fert rises considerably. N has risen about €10/15 per tonne around here from when it bottomed out, not a huge amount yet. I’ll buy early January.
 
Blackwater boy said:
To buy last august or September meant having to pay for it there any then and possibly take delivery also. Some of ye might be strong financially to be able to do this but in my case I would not have a hope, often borrowing money does not make it worthwhile unless fert rises considerably. N has risen about €10/15 per tonne around here from when it bottomed out, not a huge amount yet. I’ll buy early January.
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Last time I considered it worth buying Urea was about this time 5 years ago when it was bought for 250 a ton. Its costs €1.50 to €2 a month in interest to carry fertiliser. I would prefer the use of my money unless a huge rise
 
Barrowsider said:
I bought over half of our 2021 N requirements last July at what now looks like a good price. Bought through an independent merchant which whom we do a fair bit of business.
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You bought it through a merchant...I didn’t.
I bought it from an importer/distributor.

The Coops/Merchants won’t ALLOW (by pure financial clout) the ordinary punter (like myself) to buy direct from the trade. That’s what I’m talking about.

Here in France if you register with the manufacturer/importer you can deal direct. To register you’ve to have a bank guarantee stating the level of finance you can go.
I bought more than 25yrs worth of N if I were to use it myself. I negotiated payment and price with them directly. They gave me 6mts without having to pay a penny.
Many moons ago I’d a sibling working in Grassland and I could buy directly from them...nothing big, only what I was using myself. A large Coop got wind of it and shut me out...because they could!
 
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CORK said:
Would this thread be more active/useful if it was in the 100 posts or more section?

If it was private I’d be more inclined to put prices in here. As it is, it can just be a free resource for interested parties to use.
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I disagree. Nothing like transparency to clear things.
The whole secrecy bullcrap only supports the trade.
 
Got caught €20 on the wrong side of buying early last year. This year and last year it was pay in December. I always like to buy Fertilizer and sell grain forward in around the same time . If I buy or sell and lose out it never worry’s me because I feel it adds stability to the business.
 
CORK said:
That’s another opinion. However, if it’s left open I’d expect there’ll be many more posters asking about prices than volunteering them.
In other words, a few people making an effort and many more taking advantage of the effort.
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I don't have a strong opinion on whether this thread should be moved or not, I can't post prices either here or on a members only thread and I don't follow the trends on the futures like I do with Oil, Currency and Grain. I think I know a tiny bit about the later, I think I know why something happened yesterday with Oil and anyone who says they think they know anything about Currency is either lying or a fool.
When the Diesel price thread was moved to "members only", I was unwilling to post in it, because I can't give retail prices, but think some of the trends I see on world markets and Irish wholesale markets are worth sharing??????
I think I drove poor @nashmach mad with my messing, sorry about that, but I wanted a thread in the machinery section that was more about trends than exact prices, so I could give my thoughts and not feel like I needed to give prices.
I am not sure if Diesel thread got any extra prices posted when it went in to members, or did my insistence on a second thread mess up the chance of it working?
I hope not.
 
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Certainly an open transparent forward market would be a great thing. As mentioned above, it should certainly be possible to book forward on a price plus carry basis. And as @bogman says the price ratio between fert and grain is a key thing with any volume of either. And selling or buying forward of both fairly close to each other should help eliminate two important variables in growing a crop.
 
gone said:
I don't have a strong opinion on whether this thread should be moved or not, I can't post prices either here or on a members only thread and I don't follow the trends on the futures like I do with Oil, Currency and Grain. I think I know a tiny bit about the later, I think I know why something happened yesterday with Oil and anyone who says they think they know anything about Currency is either lying or a fool.
When the Diesel price thread was moved to "members only", I was unwilling to post in it, because I can't give retail prices, but think some of the trends I see on world markets and Irish wholesale markets are worth sharing??????
I think I drove poor @nashmach mad with my messing, sorry about that, but I wanted a thread in the machinery section that was more about trends than exact prices, so I could give my thoughts and not feel like I needed to give prices.
I am not sure if Diesel thread got any extra prices posted when it went in to members, or did my insistence on a second thread mess up the chance of it working?
I hope not.
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G, please keep up your regular “trend posts”, we understand that you can’t post prices.

We bought our complete 2021 fert requirement in early August. At the time I felt that fert was good value.
I asked for the first time if I could buy for 2022 also (pay early 21 for delivery at end of 21) but that forward option wasn’t available at the time.

When CAN is at or close to €200 I consider it very good value. It has swung between €200 & €300 in very recent years.
To get caught at the €300 end of the market makes a huge difference to costs on farm.

If we see grain prices continuing to increase, I know what will happen to fertilizer prices.
 
I can well understand Cork and BB etc wanting to safeguard their clients interests, and of course they should.
But why the cartel? Why the exclusivity?
At the click of a mouse you can get an instant price on wheat etc.
The shadowy almost murky world of the fertilizer trade is as simple and straightforward as the wheat trade. Open it up!
Methinks that it’s just too lucrative as it is.

My last offer was last Wednesday. It was for 15-15-15+11 at €299 for February delivery and payment in 30days after delivery. Thats for 600kg Toplift big bag.
That’s as simple and transparent as it gets. I can buy at that price..or not.

There shouldn’t be a jot of difference between fertilizer imported into France or Ireland. It’s all coming from the same source.
 
Ugo Schtiglitz said:
Certainly an open transparent forward market would be a great thing. As mentioned above, it should certainly be possible to book forward on a price plus carry basis. And as @bogman says the price ratio between fert and grain is a key thing with any volume of either. And selling or buying forward of both fairly close to each other should help eliminate two important variables in growing a crop.
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Glanbia do enough disserve to farmers with there forward grain prices, if they did the same with fertilizer we would all be paying at 20 euro a ton more than we should to forward buy fertilizer.:gun-bandana:
 
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