Cover Crops 3.0

I think it was the year in it for us late getting in with the cover crop and fodder rape down to a fes issues Inc clearing the field and rain. Then when setting it stayed cool for a so soil temps must if been back lessons learned for next year
 
I think that in many cases, the weaker cover crops show just how little residual N is left after cereal crops - in other words the amount of N put on by most growers isn’t excessive.

Compare this efficient N use with slurry being dumped on grassland land just prior to the closing date.......
 
CORK said:
I think that in many cases, the weaker cover crops show just how little residual N is left after cereal crops - in other words the amount of N put on by most growers isn’t excessive.

Compare this efficient N use with slurry being dumped on grassland land just prior to the closing date.......
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I don't think it's that simple. I see 2 fields of CC near here, both on the same farm, one sown after WB and the other after SO I suppose 3 or 4 weeks apart (maybe more). The first one is flying and the second one is very weak, same establishment method, same seed mix. A lack of N isn't the problem in either case unless CC's have an N requirement that surpasses WW :whistle:
 
TAFKAT said:
I don't think it's that simple. I see 2 fields of CC near here, both on the same farm, one sown after WB and the other after SO I suppose 3 or 4 weeks apart (maybe more). The first one is flying and the second one is very weak, same establishment method, same seed mix. A lack of N isn't the problem in either case unless CC's have an N requirement that surpasses WW :whistle:
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Soil temp has a huge effect on N availability, the earlier sown crop would benefit from this (one of the reasons why we don’t soil test for N in this country).

Also oats has an alleopathic effect which wouldn’t help the cc sown after it regardless of how much N was applied to the oats.

WOSR sown in the last days of August/early September usually benefits a lot from a bit of N in the seedbed, if there was a lot left over from the previous cereal, this wouldn’t be the case.
I saw a perfect example last year (1 Sept 18) where WOSR was sown in a field, the field had been split between WB & SB. No seedbed N. The droughted SB crop had left plenty N behind but the WB crop had left very little.

I’m not saying that cc’s don’t grab some N, yes they do or they wouldn’t survive.
What I am saying though that this effect is fairly marginal in my opinion and that people would be better off focusing on intensive grassland farming to see where N is escaping (Nitrates derogation, slurry run off etc).
 
Cover crops like last year were an exception.....this autumns crops much closer to normal I think unless we start applying fert etc.. to them which defeats the purpose of growing them in the first place.
 
CORK said:
Soil temp has a huge effect on N availability, the earlier sown crop would benefit from this (one of the reasons why we don’t soil test for N in this country).

Also oats has an alleopathic effect which wouldn’t help the cc sown after it regardless of how much N was applied to the oats.

WOSR sown in the last days of August/early September usually benefits a lot from a bit of N in the seedbed, if there was a lot left over from the previous cereal, this wouldn’t be the case.
I saw a perfect example last year (1 Sept 18) where WOSR was sown in a field, the field had been split between WB & SB. No seedbed N. The droughted SB crop had left plenty N behind but the WB crop had left very little.

I’m not saying that cc’s don’t grab some N, yes they do or they wouldn’t survive.
What I am saying though that this effect is fairly marginal in my opinion and that people would be better off focusing on intensive grassland farming to see where N is escaping (Nitrates derogation, slurry run off etc).
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Rebelman said:
Cover crops like last year were an exception.....this autumns crops much closer to normal I think unless we start applying fert etc.. to them which defeats the purpose of growing them in the first place.
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The cover crops I'm talking about are for grazing and got fertilizer, hence I don't think a lack of N has anything to do with it.
 
WestCorkBoy said:
This was very slow to get going, vetch and phacelia but has taken off , slugs did a fair number on it in patches and this is a very kind sheltery View attachment 72079 bit of ground if a little damp. Sown early August after WB
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That’s a fab crop, sowing 4 weeks later (early Sept) after SB is what leaves it way poorer in my case I think. This years crop is barely 6” tall and is patchy. Last year was exceptional for a few reasons, residual N and warm seedbed, CC took off and didn’t stop growing till December.
 
Hardysplicer said:
If anyway wants to call in to see cover crops in a long term situation and have a look/chat let me know
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Was at a farm walk on Billy & Rob Çolemans near Mallow last week, it's very interesting to see what is possible, to see it in the flesh is so much more effective, the effect on soil health and percolation was striking they are min tilling with a long time which I presume helps. While I can see how essential they are to keep soil open with good structure and biologically alive in a min till / no till setting in a plough based system I wonder is their benefit diminished? Are we working against them by moving so much soil? But Id find it very hard to say goodbye to beet... And go down the reduced tillage route. I am seriously considering herbal leys and some sort of combi crop wholecrop to reduce N fert use, also maybe bedding some cattle on straw generating and using more fym and less slurry. I briefly considered going organic around 3 o'clock but that had passed by 4, it was a day of musing...
 
Aiming to graze for maximum benefit, make life easy on cattle by giving them plenty to eat, minimize damage to soil and leaf a nice bit behind for worm and soil health ..... That's the plan.
 

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Just a little something I did for my own curiosity. GLAS covercrop of leafy turnip/forage rape strip tilled in after SB on the 15/9/19. Spread 2500ga/acre of 7%DM cattle slurry 1 month later.Visual difference over ground. Fairly similar under. Not a bad cover considering it was sown mid September. 20200115_100749.jpg 20200115_100736.jpg 20200115_100436.jpg 20200115_100600.jpg
 
So are people’s opinions that cc need to be fertilised except in an exceptional year like last year? Is this defeating the purpose of them?
 
Rebelman said:
So are people’s opinions that cc need to be fertilised except in an exceptional year like last year? Is this defeating the purpose of them?
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By putting the slurry on a growing crop the nutrients are still in the soil and the soil is biologically active. I do not think it is necessary to put nutrients on a cover crop but if the field needs nutrients they will be there for the next crop when the cover dies .
 
Bog Man said:
By putting the slurry on a growing crop the nutrients are still in the soil and the soil is biologically active. I do not think it is necessary to put nutrients on a cover crop but if the field needs nutrients they will be there for the next crop when the cover dies .
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That's what I'd be thinking too. We always have slurry for tillage ground in the autumn and I'd prefer to put on a cc and let that absorb it than to go onto bare stubble.
 
WestCorkBoy said:
Very tweetable photos anyway! Soil structure looks excellent, what is the idea of not having more diversity in your cropping, are we not being told that diversity and rotation are king?
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This is more diversity than monoculture crops in different year
7 species mix sowed 28th August, spring barley sown 28th March so 7 months of year a crop of Peas, Buckwheat, Tillage Radish, Phacelia, Linseed, Balansa Clover, Vetch

The OM is rising slowly over time, the yields are rising using less fertiliser. the soil structure is improving.

3.9T of Gangway on 110 units of Nitrogen in 2019.

Spring Oats / Beans / OSR are considered a break and are in ground the same length of time as a cover crop with more diversity.

Each species is absorbing sunlight, producing sugars that are transferred to the roots that feed exudates to soil biology that make soil nutrients available to the plant in available form that is then left by the plant for the next crop.

We have to re write the rulebook
 
Hardysplicer said:
This is more diversity than monoculture crops in different year
7 species mix sowed 28th August, spring barley sown 28th March so 7 months of year a crop of Peas, Buckwheat, Tillage Radish, Phacelia, Linseed, Balansa Clover, Vetch

The OM is rising slowly over time, the yields are rising using less fertiliser. the soil structure is improving.

3.9T of Gangway on 110 units of Nitrogen in 2019.

Spring Oats / Beans / OSR are considered a break and are in ground the same length of time as a cover crop with more diversity.

Each species is absorbing sunlight, producing sugars that are transferred to the roots that feed exudates to soil biology that make soil nutrients available to the plant in available form that is then left by the plant for the next crop.

We have to re write the rulebook
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Yeah that's fine, just thought a move diverse cropping rotation might add something more, super yields well done.
 
Hardysplicer said:
We have to re write the rulebook
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That is an interesting and thought provoking statement.

If you have time at some stage I would love to read more of your thoughts about what your aims and objectives would be with this new way of doing things, the benefits and how they can be achieved.
 
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